OpenTTD New Project Logo - questions

[Hydros]

Greetings and salutations,

I've had the good fortune of having my mind blown by TTD back in 1995.
I heard about this project years ago, checked it out now for good and it's awesome. Nostalgic fun. Fantastic.

And best of all, it's alive.

I've been a graphic designer, then design manager for over a decade. I saw the 32bpp gfx and immediately felt like that's a wonderful avenue, I thought what better way to contribute than to donate something in my professional capacity.

This project has been one of the top 10 in open source game development by activity few years ago I think I read that somewhere. It still uses that hack of a logo which is a parody of the original one. Hurts my head. The project has come very far, I feel it deserves a professional image reflecting the quality and quantity of the work numerous individuals contributed and made it what it is.

Most of my experience is with corporate clients in continental Europe (where the design standard is generally the highest, globally), a slight bias might be apparent in my final choices. I actually hoped I'd get around to writing and introducing myself a while ago and include you all in every step of the process beginning with all the choices but my time has been sporadic and the nature of the beast is it's a very whimsical one. I do other things and time is often at a premium. I prioritised moving ahead. So anyway, here I thought I'd fill in you in how I got to the last idea. I've been sketching and making notes every day for the past month.
I ended up with silly illustrative things not unlike the art deco style of the original. Eh I thought that's just too silly and got tired of it all so decided I'd go back to basics in the end, one last time. Just type, nothing else.

It's ready for final tweaks, consider this the final client meeting where we decide is this it, do we go ahead with it or do some tweaks.
I'd like to hear about all possible applications (icons, banners, etc)

If everyone in the universe is like the overly attached girlfriend clinging onto the parody of the original dollar-sign-in-an-orange-square, that's fine too

I dropped some material on my standard slide template and added some comments, there is no spoiler mod installed so apologies for the long sausage of a post, I can't make it neat with spoiler tags:




















If you made it till the end, you deserve a thumbsup!

[Eddi]

where is the "i don't like this" option?

[kamnet]

It looks like "BHHD OPENTTD" i have no idea what that is, it's confusing. This logo is just text and it doesn't feel like it has any association with anything to me.

the current logo, on the other hand, is perfectly clear. You have the game name, and in a design that reaches back to the design of the original Transport Tycoon logo. Its a design that is very familiar with fans and it displays that there is a relationship between the two.

Your effort is a nice attempt, but it's definitely not for me.

[Redirect Left]

where is the "i don't like this" option?

I'm favouring this option. Keep the old 'hack' of a logo. Looks good and suits OpenTTD well.

[Emperor Jake]

Looks more like GHHD to me. I do like the typeface though.

[FooBar]

I appreciate the effort but see no reason to replace the current logo.

[Pyoro]

Bunch of conservative reactionaries. Don't dismiss change just because it'd be change!

...

That being said I don't see what'd be gained by changing the logo either. ^^

[lukasz1985]

If I was to decide - I would like some new logo, but as other said - more set in the context of the game. The current dolar sign is actually pretty pointless, so if somebody will come with an idea that make the logo meaningful - It willl certainly have approbation on my side.

[Hydros]

Ok, some more info from me is in order:

I see we have two distinct topics here, 1) the current concept that I just happened to like the most and am sharing with you all here and 2) the whole idea of a new identity

As for 1) this happens to be the idea I was most satisfied with and spent some time on it. Point being, it can be just one of many and I can develop whatever idea wins in the end into something that's good. It most certainly doesn't have to be a concept I came up with alone on my own.

So if you have something to add that furthers our understanding, that would be great, if you just don't like it, that's great too, it just doesn't really contribute anything of value to the discussion so I encourage you to at least think about why and what is it that you do like and why. That can be helpful.

2)
My rationale behind this whole idea was, the old hack of a symbol unfortunately has too much of that "something from the 90s that the secretary's 8 year old nephew came up with" look to it. Perhaps some of you don't see it that way and that's fine but I'm sure we all agree that it takes a certain amount of ignorance to pull off stunts like setting professional correspondence in comic sans right? Even if you think that's silly and unimportant, there are some clients that will disagree and even if you don't understand why, might cost you some business and you can bet your boss will understand it. Point being - it affects others whether we're aware of it or not. Those "in the know" will have a more thorough understanding and awareness. The current situation is pretty much that but on a larger yet more subtle scale.

A professional looking identity would inspire potential investors' trust but we're note dealing with any of that here, so why does this matter?

There's a greater goal here at play in my opinion - it has to do with FOSS (Free Open Source Software) and public percpetion, by public I mean overwhelmingly the non-tech crowd. People who would think grown ass men reading forums about a game they played as kids is silly. People who vote, hold offices, make laws, just as well as we do. Associating FOSS with amateurishness or even maliciousness (yeah, I thought it was preposterous too) hurts us all in the long run. Getting people motivated and politically active for tech causes (privacy, crypto, etc) that benefit the society in general is hard enough, only works if things can first be explained well enough for people to react emotionally.

Tangent story:
Have we all heard that story about farmers being unable to repair their tractors due to proprietary software on it and circumventing it violates DMCA. Ok that's yanks and their mess but it's a great story that illustrates the importance of FOSS very well. Imagine that farmer asked the salesman "does this tractor come with FOSS? No? thanks I'll take my business elsewhere where they come with FOSS".
/Tangent story.

Conclusion - contributing anything to raise awareness in the public eye that FOSS isn't inherently some amateurish jank that random antisocial hacks come up with over the weekend but can be quality stuff, helpful stuff and support for the concept of FOSS may even be a necessity - that's a worthy cause in my book and why I think this is important too.

With that said, here's a pragmatic bit for the end:
Next step would be - gathering ideas and concepts of the whole community (please try to note also your involvement/contributions to the project, or send me pm if you'd like) I'd like to see if there's a difference in perceptions from big contributors and others. Doesn't mean I'll place more weight on some opinions but being able to make that distinction is useful information for me. After that, I'll work my magic and we'll be back to this point but with something everyone relates to.


What got me interested and seeing if I have the time to get involved was seeing the 32bpp capability which is awesome but I also can't help but notice it's in dire need of quality art. After I've seen 32bpp I can't go back to 8bpp I've also witnessed someone I know (non-tech, non-geek) turn away solely based on their first impression, it "looked like a chinese scam" because of the "shabby looking squared dollar sign". I thought this just deserves better. I think that's always a valid consideration.

Thank you all for sharing thus far. For your entertainment, I will add a variation I didn't choose and explain why next.

[Hydros]

Why I don't like the dollar sign:

It's the original old logo. OpenTTD is not TTD. People on the outside don't see under the hood but the FOSS aspect of it is what makes it fantastic in my book. It deserves to stand out for what it is. Not just a shadow of the original idea.

Potential copyright problems, it's cool that there haven't been copyright issues so far, it's possible it's just so bland it falls under de minimis. I'm not sure.

The dollar sign is also misleading. While the game probably fits into the "business sim" genre, this really isn't about business or money. While it's used as a measure of performance in multiplayer, the essence of the game itself is - for me - about transport. Future-proofing, optimization, efficiency, tinkering.
Why is it fun for all of you? Does anyone really like it first and foremost because they get to "make millions of <currency_of_choice>"? Didn't think so

Ok here is the stuff I mentioned:



Half-train half-truck. We like playing without ships and planes anyway right! That's where the fun is.



In my book, trains are where it's at.

I picked these as 2nd favourite and not 1st because they seem to represent OpenTTD as just a game but it's also something we, the original consumers took and made our own and the result is better than the original. That's more than just entertainment. Maybe this is my personal bias coming through, I just care about the FOSS aspect of it a great deal. If I'm in the minority and everyone ends up liking this, of course I'll be more than happy to develop this, or anything else to the end.

Cheers

[Redirect Left]

The old symbol suits because it has that retro look. This is a retro looking game (using vanilla settings), and yes the logo does look like its from the 90s, why? Well it is, and so is the game we're playing with. It's also a huge advantange that it looks close to the original, it makes it a lot easier to find for those looking. If you're going through a big list of games, and see that logo amongst it, you'll go "oh that looks familiar!" wrack your brain for a bit, remember what it was and hopefully go 'lets see what they've done with it!'. If you get rid of that logo, that sense of familiarity will be lost.
The dollar sign is not misleading, it is a business simulation game. End of, that is the definition of the game in nearly all places where it is sorted into or given a genre. Yes money is superbly easy to make, and most people are not playing it for that reason, but it is still a large factor of the game and the original genre was 'Business Simulation', it is of course also derived from 'Transport Tycoon Deluxe'. What's a tycoon you ask? It is defined as a wealthy businessman. Yes, OpenTTD usually doesn't reference what the 'TTD' means in its manuals and bulletins, but anyone familiar with its roots knows full well what it means it is entirity.

I'm sure everyone appreciates your dedication to the game and your good intentions, I'm just not sure (by a long shot) that it'd be for the best.

[Chrill]

I kinda really like the current OpenTTD logo.

[Supercheese]

I kinda really like the current OpenTTD logo.

As do I. I even made myself an OpenTTD logo keychain using my 3D printer.

[Chrill]

I kinda really like the current OpenTTD logo.

As do I. I even made myself an OpenTTD logo keychain using my 3D printer.

Sell me one of those! What do they cost to make?

[V453000 :)]

I love your effort and professionalism Hydros, all this stuff is absolutely awesome. I am super sad that the forums have yet again proven to be toxic to any constructive discussion.

Even though I think something would have to be done about the "TT", I understand that this is just a concept and suggestion to collaborate ... I think your train (huehuehue) of thought is excellent which is what matters here.

I think that this situation perfectly reflects what is happening with 32bpp implementation / available graphics, and how people perceive them:

Even though we are able to get something more modern, the 8bpp skeleton will be dragged on forever, as it probably has to be, considering all the 8bpp NewGRFs and the legacy of original windows base set. There is no gui switch to the 32bpp/8bpp blitters and it is all kind of secretly working. Apart from the fact that there is, as you mentioned, no quality art.

This is very related to the logo, because I think such modern style of logo would fit amazingly well for some sort of game in 32bpp. However, this skeleton, and people using it (8bpp will never die, I do not believe so. If 8bpp dies, OpenTTD will as well). And I do not blame them - at the moment sheerly for the reason that good 32bpp simply does not exist, and of course for the reason of nostalgia or simply just because 8bpp looks nice if done in the professional style like the original base set from 1998.

I completely agree with you that the current logo is very unprofessional and messy, but as you can see it is what geek-technerd people around OpenTTD got used to, and will not give up on. As mentioned above, it is the symbol of what OpenTTD truly is - retro which will never throw that away.

[planetmaker]

Why I don't like the dollar sign:

It's the original old logo. OpenTTD is not TTD. People on the outside don't see under the hood but the FOSS aspect of it is what makes it fantastic in my book. It deserves to stand out for what it is. Not just a shadow of the original idea.

Potential copyright problems, it's cool that there haven't been copyright issues so far, it's possible it's just so bland it falls under de minimis. I'm not sure.

The dollar sign is also misleading. While the game probably fits into the "business sim" genre, this really isn't about business or money. While it's used as a measure of performance in multiplayer, the essence of the game itself is - for me - about transport. Future-proofing, optimization, efficiency, tinkering.

I fully agree with your assessment of the current logo. It's unimaginative, non-descriptive and mis-leading. The about only positive about it is its age; people got used to it.

Why is it fun for all of you? Does anyone really like it first and foremost because they get to "make millions of <currency_of_choice>"? Didn't think so

While there's many people who agree here, I'm myself surprised again and again how many people actually *do* see this as their main goal (even while it's pointless to use this as metric for success, given the many other parameters one can tune). But this is probably one of the factors to OpenTTD's success: there's many ways you can play it as there's many ways in how you can define success: may that be $$ or nice-looking or efficient, or beating some game script goals or whatever.

The most-used aspect of this game, and common to nearly everyone who plays this game, though, is trains - as you correctly describe yourself

The idea to use the Ts in OpenTTD as buffers is great, but I'm not entirely conviced of the result yet - and I'm sad this is not constructive criticism but a rather unimaginative 'feeling'.

I think that this situation perfectly reflects what is happening with 32bpp implementation / available graphics, and how people perceive them:

Even though we are able to get something more modern, the 8bpp skeleton will be dragged on forever, as it probably has to be, considering all the 8bpp NewGRFs and the legacy of original windows base set. There is no gui switch to the 32bpp/8bpp blitters and it is all kind of secretly working. Apart from the fact that there is, as you mentioned, no quality art.

You may not notice it... but 32bpp blitter is default for most OS for hardware reasons, including on windows. And even when set explicitly to the contrary, it activates automatically, if you have any 32bpp (New)GRF which want it. Thus your perception is a bit skewed - it really is "only" missing graphics or wide-spread usage of 32bpp graphics

[V453000 :)]

I think that this situation perfectly reflects what is happening with 32bpp implementation / available graphics, and how people perceive them:

Even though we are able to get something more modern, the 8bpp skeleton will be dragged on forever, as it probably has to be, considering all the 8bpp NewGRFs and the legacy of original windows base set. There is no gui switch to the 32bpp/8bpp blitters and it is all kind of secretly working. Apart from the fact that there is, as you mentioned, no quality art.

You may not notice it... but 32bpp blitter is default for most OS for hardware reasons, including on windows. And even when set explicitly to the contrary, it activates automatically, if you have any 32bpp (New)GRF which want it. Thus your perception is a bit skewed - it really is "only" missing graphics or wide-spread usage of 32bpp graphics [/quote]

... I mean mainly enabling the 8bpp blitter which many players want to do, and now do through the config which is a bit eww ...

[Kalen]

I like the design. *shrug* And I'm a devout 8bpp fanboy too.

But, I do agree the coupling idea sounds better in theory than in practice, at least in this particular implementation.

I feel like you really can't have the "O-||-D" logo without the accompanying "OpenTTD" label (like in the last image), because otherwise nobody will know what the logo means unless they've read this thread, which isn't very likely, if we're being real here.

But yes, I do like the design. The typeface is very clean and posh (I also liked the first one), the 32bpp theme and the isometric view are spiffy, and I even like the half-train, half-truck alternative (I think this one is nice for a logo, and the last image in your first post works great as a banner or splash screen).

It's just the coupling idea that looks confusing, in this incarnation. I say either keep it simple, or find a way to make it work more clearly.

Also, on the whole 8bpp retro vs. 32bpp modern debate: I'm a devout 8bpp fanboy because I enjoy the aesthetic of professionally crafted sprites. The OpenTTD style, in particular, is very aesthetically pleasing (I don't like the original TTD style as much, to be frank, though it is still appealing nonetheless).

However, that doesn't mean I can't enjoy more modern styles. But so far all 32bpp designs I've seen are too "blocky", if that makes sense, too bland, and lack the aesthetic variety and intensity of most 8bpp sets out there, including the OGFX one. 32bpp so far has felt more like "Legoland", meanwhile 8bpp sets feel more like a painting, and it works precisely because of that.

Which is not to say that all 8bpp styles inherently work. There are other games out there using lower resolution sprites which absolutely, to me, do not work. But the style I've seen TTD artists use is in general pretty appealing, and until 32bpp artists manage to be just as or more appealing, there's always going to be a lot of resistance towards moving to that style (not to mention most sets out there haven't been converted yet).

...still, I feel it's important to mention that there's no real reason the logo should be in the same style as the baseset. Why can we not have a more modern-looking logo, banner, etc. in the theme of 32bpp graphics and still keep the 8bpp baseset? Not to mention there are already 32bpp basesets, so this point seems a bit moot to me. "Vanilla" OTTD isn't inherently 8bpp, that's just the style most of us decide to stick and be loyal to.

TL;DR: I like the idea of a 32bpp-inspired logo and assorted promotional/site/theme images, I don't think the retro style has to stick forever, and I do like the general gist of the implementation here... except for the coupling thing. Great work, though, nonetheless, and your dedication and professionalism are quite noteworthy and commendable.

[kamnet]

I will say that I kinda like how this one is starting out:


It actually looks fairly similar to the current Transport Tycoon logo:


Which is, sadly, why I'd not want to use it. To be honest we've not had any negative dealings with Mr. Sawyer, and I'd certainly like to keep it that way. Even though OpenTTD isn't really anything like Transport Tycoon (nee Locomotion), and day-by-day the two are growing further apart, I'd like to make sure we retain some distance unless Mr. Sawyer decides that he wants to make positive contributions to our community.

But, if we were going to use the above logo, I don't like representing just trains or the bottom of a truck. Like the TT logo I would like to see all forms of transport represented. OpenTTD is *not* just a train game, it covers a broad swath of the transport industry.

[V453000 :)]

The only similarity I see is that there are vehicles (very uncommon for a transportation game), and name of the project ...

but okay, possible suggestions I could think of:

- work with cargo crate instead of transportation vehicle(s) (omg game is passengers, liquids and animals too!)
- work with rail/road/? as in paths things run on instead of the actual vehicle
- not money? :>

If your problem is copycatting Mr. Sawyer, then the original logo looks like it does exactly that? XD