Kamnet's ideabox

Discuss, get help with, or post new graphics for TTDPatch and OpenTTD, using the NewGRF system, here. Graphics for plain TTD also acceptable here.

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Kamnet's ideabox

Post by kamnet » 12 Mar 2016 02:18

So the next several posts I'm going to be dumping some of my ideas for projects in hopes that maybe somebody else sees them and gets inspired. These were originally posted over at Simuscape as a way for me to track stuff I wanted to eventually work on, but my stuff was eventually removed. So, warning, I'm entering spam mode now. :)

[IDEA] Parks & Recreation
[IDEA] School System
[IDEA] Stadiums & Skyscrapers as Subway Stations
[IDEA] Upgrade Tram Tracks to Guided Busways
[IDEA] Better Farms & Gardens
[IDEA] Decaying Cities
[IDEA] Rail Stations as Elevated Parks
Last edited by kamnet on 20 Aug 2016 19:41, edited 1 time in total.

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[IDEA] Parks & Recreation

Post by kamnet » 12 Mar 2016 02:18

One thing I've noticed desperately missing from the middle of large TTD cities are recreational areas. We need some.

- Playgrounds
- City / Municipal pool
- Basketball court
- Tennis courts
- Greenhouse gardens
- Amphitheater
- Golf course
- Skate park
- Baseball diamond
- Cricket pitch
- Sand volleyball court
- Zoo / Petting zoo

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[IDEA] School System

Post by kamnet » 12 Mar 2016 02:19

Original discussion on tt-forums: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57775

Another neat idea I toyed with in my head today while commuting, in case anybody wants to take it up.

A school system is clearly lacking in OpenTTD, which could more effectively utilize buses. New school buses could be drawn, and utilized by by an AI which either builds NewObject buildings, or implements an entire new industry with students (not pax or tourists). Industry could establish a percentage of the population wants to go to a nearby school in the area (10%?). Only such school building industries will accept students.

How many schools? What types? What size? An idea on that:

For the first 2500 in population, build one 1x1 primary/elementary school.
For every 5000 in population, build one 1x2 primary school.
For every 2500 after that, build an additional 1x2 primary school.
For every 5000 above the first 5000, build one 2x2 secondary/high school.
For every 25,000, build a 3x3 university.

Additional NewObjects will allow one to build out a school campus/complex including administrative buildings, libraries, labs, parks, paths, parking lots, stadiums and athletic facilities.

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[IDEA] Stadiums & Skyscrapers as Subway Stations

Post by kamnet » 12 Mar 2016 02:19

A few years ago FreakNL released his "Subway Stations Disgused as Parks" NewGRF as a way to create some easy-to-integrate underground stations. DJ Nekkid, in that thread, showed off a underground station with an office building above ground.

A perfect complement for this would be to create multi-tile stadiums with underground stations below them. Such facilities will easily fit into the middle of a city (especially a large city) and it's logical that there would be very large crowds waiting at a station underneath a stadium. A wide variety of stadiums could be implemented: American football, football/soccer, basketball fieldhouses/indoor arenas, large domed stadiums, rugby or cricket fields, concert arenas, baseball fields... maybe even a Quidditch pitch.

If one wanted to get started quickly, there are several abandoned stadium graphics lurking in the tt-forums graphics development thread, that are nicely drawn and appropriately sized. You could also snag the stadiums of out OpenGFX and make them into stations. This would eliminate the issue of towns constantly building and tearing down such facilities in just a few years timespan.

Moving beyond that, skyscrapers also make logical places that would have a subway beneath them. Again there's several abandoned skyscrapers on the tt-forums graphics dev thread, including the former World Trade Center towers, and the Sears Tower/Willis Tower in Chicago. Maybe some of the skyscrapers out of Total Town Replacement or Urban Renewal Set would be suitable as well. Or maybe some new buildings that match North American Building Set or North American City Set.

Another logical expansion of this would be parking lots. I really like the lots from North American Roads Set which can automatically fill up with vehicles to show there's people waiting at the station, this would be a great way to expand on that. Born Acorn also has a multi-story car park which he promised to populate with cars, but never has, and pretty much goes unused.

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[IDEA] Upgrade Tram Tracks to Guided Busways

Post by kamnet » 12 Mar 2016 02:20

Tonight I was introduced to guided busways. After reading up on it, it seems to me that this would be an ideal upgrade for tram tracks. There are many NewGRF bus sets that introduce new buses after 1980, but only one (maybe a few more) that introduce new trams or light railway vehicles. The general system seems to be very compatible with adding either single- or double-rail tram or lightrail tracks.[/quote]
OzTrans wrote:I know the guided busways built in Adelaide, Australia and I have used these buses a few years ago. It uses and wastes a lot of land, that could be better used for off-road tram tracks. The only advantage these buses have they can travel at 100 km/h and when getting into the CBD still use ordinary roads.

It would be nice, if it were possible as additional tram tracks. I wouldn't want to go without trams late in a game. Light Rail implemented as articulated trams are the only way to move large numbers of passengers in and out of large cities.

You could implement busways as follows :

. Off-Road tram tracks become busways, with only such buses being able to use them.
. On-Road tram tracks to be implemented as invisible tracks. You'd still need to lay them, otherwise such buses could not drive on ordinary roads; something they are able to do in the real world.

But, what about already existing trams ? Players would have to sell them first, otherwise it'll look bad having trams on roads without tracks and being able to drive on busways.
wallyweb wrote:Interesting. When the Montréal subway (Metro) was built, it was claimed to be the quietest subway in the world. The bogies have rubber tires as well as lateral guide tires similar to those guideway buses. The power line is embedded in one of the guides and the power pick up is one of the guide wheels.As with all subways, some of the tunnels are quite deep underground, but the rubber tires allow the trains to rise easily up the grades to stations that are mostly just below street level.
kamnet wrote:
OzTrans wrote:The only advantage these buses have they can travel at 100 km/h and when getting into the CBD still use ordinary roads.
This is what appeals to me over trams, they more seamlessly integrate into those large urban areas without requiring new stations or heavy dedicated equipment to operate.
It would be nice, if it were possible as additional tram tracks. I wouldn't want to go without trams late in a game. Light Rail implemented as articulated trams are the only way to move large numbers of passengers in and out of large cities.
For me I see lightrail as being one step above KGBs. Still, I'm looking at this from a gameplay perspective for what's currently available in TTD. There are few "modern" or "futuristic" trams, almost all of them have lower speeds and passenger capacity than many of the bus NewGRFs that have been created, or have bugs. Copping some of the double decker or high capacity buses from many of the bus sets would make this set compelling.
You could implement busways as follows :

. Off-Road tram tracks become busways, with only such buses being able to use them.
. On-Road tram tracks to be implemented as invisible tracks. You'd still need to lay them, otherwise such buses could not drive on ordinary roads; something they are able to do in the real world.

But, what about already existing trams ? Players would have to sell them first, otherwise it'll look bad having trams on roads without tracks and being able to drive on busways.
I took a look at this report, and on page 7 it shows a schematic for implementing tram rails and guideways into the same path. There is also the real-world example of the Bombardier GLT which uses a single middle rail to guide the vehicle, but can also be driven on regular street surfaces off-rail.

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[IDEA] Better Farms & Gardens

Post by kamnet » 12 Mar 2016 02:21

The first-ever idea I had for a NewGRF was to expand on the farming activity. Industrial Station Renewal touches on this a little, but all the sprites have rail tiles on them, when they could be used for more. Also, in earlier versions of OpenTTD, there was very little re-generation of farm tiles after you bulldozed them. Newer versions fix this, but you're still limited to whatever the game decides to make. I want to see bigger and fancier farm operations.

Essentially, my idea is to take the farm-related graphics from OpenGFX and Industrial Station Renewal and turn them into NewObject tiles. From there you could expand with new sprites to fill in useful tiles.

Specific ideas:
* The grain elevators are made for trains to drive underneath a shed to load/unload grain. This needs to be expanded for road vehicles.
* New barns, silos, water towers, tractors, sheds, fueling facilities.
* Dirt & gravel roads. I actually talked to OzTrans a few years back about possibly taking the dirt roads from NARoads and using them, but I never got back to him w/ a polished NewGRF. Now that Quast65 has showed that you can, indeed, create NewObjects which overlay normal roads, this is a realistic thing. If RoadTypes ever takes off, this would be an excellent cadidate to break out on its own .
* More tiles showing farm animals. Possibly animated, even, to show any inventory waiting at stations.

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[IDEA] Decaying Cities

Post by kamnet » 12 Mar 2016 02:22

Original discussion on tt-forums: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=57688

Just a quick thought that went through my head, that I don't think I've seen proposed before. A NewGRF which replaces the base house and office buildings with decayed, crumbling buildings if a town isn't regularly serviced.
Yexo wrote:A house NewGRF can check the percent passengers/mail transport this month/last month. So it could show crumbled houses when there are no passengers transported last month nor this month.
Terkhen wrote:You can also use town persistent storage to store more stats and information. Houses can then check it to decide their state.
lawton27 wrote:I think this could be well implemented in existing newGRFs :) Personally I think run down / derelict wouldn't look too great if it was constantly changing.

It would be nice to see at the start of the game all towns only have small houses and will only build small houses unless the town is provided with transportation. The town can then choose to build progressively bigger buildings as more and more passengers are transported. This would require no new graphics and would be nice as a parameter option in certain sets, Hint* Hint*... :)

Along the derelict line perhaps if a town revives no service in a year or so the 'large' buildings (ie those that only could be built if transport was provided at some point) could become derelict :)
Michi_cc wrote:Yeah, combined with callback 0x148 there's a lot you could do.
Kogut wrote:Is it possible to check delivery of food/goods/etc?
planetmaker wrote:You can in principle check for any cargo being delivered: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Va ... s_.2864.29
Hyronymus wrote:Do cities actually decrease in size when they had a good service and lose that service?
Eddi wrote:towns have a growth rate based on number of active stations, and a decay rate based on number of houses (and their lifetime). towns will shrink if the latter is larger than the former.
[/quote]

SAC wrote:I think this sounds interesting! It's a bit like SimCity 4, although that example was a bad way of implementing it. But being given sort of an incentive, (?), in order to avoid towns decaying, only adds an even more interesting part to the game itself... :)
athanasios wrote:If you don't overdo it-like Simcity it will be nice. I mean that it will be OK to have a number of decayed buildings but not many, unless you create a specific script with rapid decrease in town population-hmm a nice challenge scenario? And in the past it has been proposed to create aging buildings anyway.
OzTrans wrote:It has been awhile since I worked with City sets.
Yexo wrote:A house NewGRF can check the percent passengers/mail transport this month/last month. ...
AFAIK, only the fact that cargo was received can be checked, but not how much of it.
Terkhen wrote:You can also use town persistent storage to store more stats and information ...
AFAIK, only industries have persistent storage.
Kogut wrote:Is it possible to check delivery of food/goods/etc?
You cann check for any cargo type that the house accepts, but only whether it has, but not how much.

It would be possible in a way, but I don't think it will look good. We are talking about changes happening all the time, but have no way to store important information between cycles.

I do have another idea, which I am going to try for my new CanCity. It will include buildings being demolished or decaying, after that they will be rebuilt, i.e. houses > town houses > high rise. I'll outline the concept when I have more time.
kamnet wrote:So there's no way to keep a history of how long a house has been without service?

The way I see this working (in theory) is to check if it's been more than, say, 12 months since a house has received goods. If so, then the house is essentially vacant/abandoned and then reverts to a depiction of a dilapidated property.
OzTrans wrote:The history is limited to the following (extract from GRF Specifications)

Code: Select all

Cargo acceptance history of nearby stations (64)

The parameter of this variable is a cargo identifier. GRFv=7 If your GRF is version 7 or later and has 
a cargo translation table, this is an index to that table; otherwise, it's a cargo slot number. Additionally, 
GRF register 100h should contain an offset relative to the current tile (use 0 for the current tile). 
The lowest byte contains the signed X offset and the next higher byte the signed Y offset.

The returned value looks like this:
Bit number	Meaning
0	This cargo was accepted in a nearby station some time in the past
1	This cargo was accepted in a nearby station last month
2	This cargo was accepted in a nearby station this month
3	This cargo was accepted in a nearby station since the last periodic processing (which happens every 250 ticks)
4	This cargo is one of the types that triggered callback 148 (only during callback 148)
other bits	undefined; reserved for future use

A station is considered nearby if the selected tile is inside its acceptance area. That's why you can give an offset - 
other tiles of your multi-tile building may have different stations "nearby". 
You have available the following information :
0) Was the cargo ever accepted ? [would be true most certainly, if there was activity]
1) Was cargo accepted last month ?
2) Was cargo accepted this month ?
3) Was the cargo accepted within the last 6,75 seconds ?
4) The cargo triggered callback 148 !

But, you'll never know how much cargo.
... to check if it's been more than, say, 12 months since a house has received goods.
That information is not available. The best I can offer you is this :

Let's say we are in April; you would only know, whether there was no cargo delivered between March 1 and the current day in April.

-or-

The cargo in question has never been accepted; but this could also be the case, if the house was just built recently (you would have to take the building's age into account).

It is very tricky; do we know whether there are any stations nearby at all ? I don't think that information is available. If there aren't any stations, you may destroy an entire town, because there was no cargo accepted ever. A bit problematic early in a game.

EDIT :

I was thinking about it a bit last night. There is a way, that you could cover, say, a 12 month period of inactivity and then deicide the house is vacant and should decay. However, my idea would depend on how you see that idea implemented.

Can you document the various visual stages as you see them implemented, including what you'd like to happen to the population count, the cargo acceptability, what should happen in the end etc. Starting with:

Code: Select all

Stage 1 construction
Stage 2 construction
Stage 3 construction
Finished Building
...
kamnet wrote:For construction stages, doesn't need to be elaborate - if the house sees there hasn't been a delivery of ANY cargo/food/passengers in the last 12 months, then simply swap out the normal house graphic for one which looks like an abandoned property - not very colorful, boarded up windows, weeds growing. If there is delivery, then put back the tile that was previously there, if possible.

Population would be reduced by whatever population was previously represented by that tile. Not sure if it's possible, but I wouldn't want to see the decay happen too fast, any way to see if a decayed house tile was placed within the last three months? I think that would be decent to show a slow decay of an area.
OzTrans wrote:
kamnet wrote:...
That sounds doable ... I may, if I may, include your idea as a feature, when I update NACity.
wallyweb wrote:/me envisions a player's ranking busted from "Tycoon" all the way down to "Slumlord" :mrgreen:
athanasios wrote:Plus you made a good suggestion for the ranking here in the forums. Let us say from 2 up to 10 posts?

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by Dave » 12 Mar 2016 10:24

That last idea was pretty much picked up by Andrew350 in his wasteland GRF.

Obviously you're desiring a bit of a different implementation but the core idea is there.
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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by kamnet » 12 Mar 2016 12:17

Dave wrote:That last idea was pretty much picked up by Andrew350 in his wasteland GRF.

Obviously you're desiring a bit of a different implementation but the core idea is there.
Yep, he did do that. And "Better farms & gardens" is essentially what we have between VAST and EmptyGRF now, and the whole reason I posted all this stuff is in part of what GarryG has thrown together for his objects set. I guess it's nice to see that others share the same ideas that I do, and can at least make it happen.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by GarryG » 25 Mar 2016 05:29

Been re-checking your wish list and wondering what I could have a go at next. Already put your dams to use. So wonder if Golf Couse idea be worth having a go at. I not a golfer, but could still try.

The Golf Course might make a good one .. do it in separate tiles of the Tee, fairway, the green, sand traps. Then people can make their own course what ever size they want with as many holes they wish. What ya think? The golf club probably take some doing unless someone knows of a building someone has already made that could be used.

I think the main problem is getting some green colours that not blend in with the normal green tiles in the games and not change for company colours.

Like some of the others too .. but still need to think on ways to make them.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by GarryG » 25 Mar 2016 08:18

Hi Kamnet, here's my first attempt at a Golf Course.
GolfCourse.png
GolfCourse.png (169.76 KiB) Viewed 6162 times
The set comprised 6 sections .. 1 for Golf Tee, 4 with different shape fairways and sand traps, and 1 for the Green.

You can make your golf course as small or as large as you want and as many fairways you like.

If any one like to try editing the sprites to improve it your welcome to do so as here is the sprites.
Golfobjects.rar
(71.44 KiB) Downloaded 94 times
Your welcome to use in your own projects if wish.

Has anyone got a nice building that can be used as a Golf Club House that I can have to add to this set?

The trees are from Forest Objects.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by Timeflyer » 27 Mar 2016 17:25

My Idea:
creating a Set of modern Radiostation Towers.....just like the LighthouseSet.
But.... i am not a drawer and coder....
there are so many many different types of Radiotowers worldwide....
think that it would be possible, but.....who wants tro try?

Example: highest german radio towers:
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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by kamnet » 27 Mar 2016 22:14

Timeflyer wrote:My Idea:
creating a Set of modern Radiostation Towers.....just like the LighthouseSet.
But.... i am not a drawer and coder....
there are so many many different types of Radiotowers worldwide....
think that it would be possible, but.....who wants tro try?

Example: highest german radio towers:
Everybody who is a coder or drawer today started out as not being either. Nobody is born with it. Both require taking time to learn, practice, fail, and start again. The real question is not who wants to try, but do YOU want to try? The worst thing that can happen is that you don't try, and therefore nobody else tries, either, and thus nothing is done.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by wallyweb » 28 Mar 2016 03:25

Timeflyer wrote:My Idea: :
You've already accomplished the most important part ... You've had an idea. :D

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by GarryG » 28 Mar 2016 05:52

Nobody is born with it. Both require taking time to learn, practice, fail, and start again.
How true that is .. took me months to learn and still leaning and that almost 12 months now, but at least I starting to achieve something.
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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by kamnet » 29 Mar 2016 03:59

GarryG wrote:
Nobody is born with it. Both require taking time to learn, practice, fail, and start again.
How true that is .. took me months to learn and still leaning and that almost 12 months now, but at least I starting to achieve something.
It's been said by others, and I'm pretty sure it's been said once before, and it's worth saying again. GarryG's dedication to learning how to draw and code has been nothing short of spectacular. If we had a "Newcomer of the Year" award, he'd win it. I'm awestruck at how far he's come in a short period of time.

If GarryG can learn how to do this, ANYBODY can learn how to do this. You just have to want to do it.

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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by Quast65 » 29 Mar 2016 10:28

Timeflyer wrote:My Idea:
creating a Set of modern Radiostation Towers.....just like the LighthouseSet.
But.... i am not a drawer and coder....
there are so many many different types of Radiotowers worldwide....
think that it would be possible, but.....who wants tro try?

Example: highest german radio towers:
A couple of those towers can be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=68936&hilit=world+landmark
(the last page has a GRF)
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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by GarryG » 30 Mar 2016 10:11

Kamnet .. you trying to give me a swelled head ? :) Thanks for you nice comments.

To be honest .. I still haven't a clue how to code .. all my NML coding is coping from what others have done and what Quast65 has done for me recently.

If people carefully check some of my graphics .. they will find bits and pieces from other peoples projects in many of them.

The Coal Stages, Water Towers, Electricity Power Poles, Signal Boxes, Station Buildings, Footbridges, Fake Rivers, Culverts, Houses, the Pub, Animals, fences and some others have all got somethings in them from another persons project or they instigated my ideas.

All this from some one who 12 months ago never had a clue what to do.

All the help I needed to get started came from these forums .. many people cam to my aid to get me started.


Here's something for you to search .. every part of the Coal Stage from other peoples work. The pylons, sides, top, tracks everything in it are parts of other graphics. Can you figure out where they come from?
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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by Quast65 » 30 Mar 2016 14:09

I still haven't a clue how to code
Not entirely true my friend ;-)
You have figured out yourself what you need to change in the example codes to get more objects, you know how to name and sort them and give them GRF-IDs and version numbers.
Also you know how to compile the code and graphics into a GRF and how to upload to Bananas.
You may not exactly know how the magic is done in the code, but you manage to put on a bloody great show ;-)
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Re: Kamnet's ideabox

Post by lukasz1985 » 05 Apr 2016 14:35

Kamnet, you have many fun ideas. But why dont you just sit and try drawing something yourself?

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