FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[Leanden]

More importantly the size of the UK in relation to the map is unimportant, the cargo decay was balanced to travel end to end of a 128x128 map. If maps are now 2048x2048, thats 16 times further to travel end to end, so cargo payment should decay at 1/16 of the rate on those size maps.

[Terkhen]

Maybe three presets would be sufficient: slow decay, normal decay and fast decay. If someone really wants to tweak all nuts and bolts it should check out the source, do some tweaking and build a custom version.

That could be a good option too.

More importantly the size of the UK in relation to the map is unimportant, the cargo decay was balanced to travel end to end of a 128x128 map. If maps are now 2048x2048, thats 16 times further to travel end to end, so cargo payment should decay at 1/16 of the rate on those size maps.

As I already pointed, I expect cargo payments to stay consistent between different map sizes. For me a bigger map it is not a map with greater detail but a map that shows more terrain. For me a delivery over 100 tiles should pay the same no matter the map size because I consider it the same distance.

There is also the point of costs. Creating a 100 tile lenght line costs you a certain amount of money. The vehicle expends a certain time going from A to B. The cost and time do not vary with map size. Why should the payments be different? And if they were different, this would mean that the difficulty of obtaining profit would change between different map sizes. IMO this is not desirable.

[FooBar]

Maybe three presets would be sufficient: slow decay, normal decay and fast decay. If someone really wants to tweak all nuts and bolts it should check out the source, do some tweaking and build a custom version.

That could be a good option too.

And if they were different, this would mean that the difficulty of obtaining profit would change between different map sizes.

I thought that too (after I posted), so maybe the proposed option would be better named something like "payment rate difficulty" with options easy, normal and hard.

[Leanden]

No power station in FIRS?

I just noticed this and am wondering why?

[kamnet]

No power station in FIRS? I just noticed this and am wondering why?

See:

If we get TownControl (maybe, one day), then I'll implement a form of electricity in newgrf. It won't require pylons, transmission grids etc. I think they're a step too far. Meanwhile I deleted the power station from FIRS industries, because other than as a source of easy money, I think it's dumb

[Leanden]

But with the steel industry at a stand still in the UK, i have no where to take my coal now

Oh well, for now ill just pretend that cement plants are power plants, the graphics look similar to a gas power plant near where i live Wait that doesn't work. *cry*

EDIT: Its a shame really because Power stations are a large of source of transport from oil to coal and even nuclear materials, all which could be included in the set potentially. Also all that waste that cities produce could be taken to a scrap yard or to an incinerator plant. (Waste could be produced by town buildings).

[kamnet]

There's a waste chain in the works already.

[FooBar]

Power stations are not fun. They only eat cargo and don't produce anything.
As long as power stations can't serve a purpose in the game, there is very little chance they will be implemented. One could decide to create a power station add-on for FIRS.

[andythenorth]

As long as power stations can't serve a purpose in the game, there is very little chance they will be implemented. One could decide to create a power station add-on for FIRS.

That would be quite trivial for *someone* to do

The one from OpenGFX+ Industries could probably be repurposed?

Leanden - if you want it, you could try to code it...

[Voyager One]

May I suggest something regarding the powerstation? I agree with Andy's choice to omit it for the same reasons he's said. However, what if *someone* ( ) configures the powerstation to produce i.e. waste?

Think about it, IRL powerstation (esxpecially coal ones) produce (air) pollution, a kind of a waste. My suggestion is that the powerstation in-game produces waste too but at a very low ratio, i.e. 20 tons of coal for 1 ton of waste, or even less. Why? Because they wouldn't remain "easy-money-earners" only, you could have a secondary product to transport and since air polluting gasses are basically very light IRL, there comes the unfavorable production ratio.

I know CO2 and other stuff are gasses IRL but here they could be all classified under "waste".

[Leanden]

I suppose i could try and make an extension for FIRS which would reintroduce Power stations and a new chain for waste. It would be my first GRF project ever with regards to coding tho!! So don't expect it to be quick

I'll start drawing some graphics and see what i can come up with.

Besides most fossil fuel burning plants produce slurry which has to be taken somewhere

[planetmaker]

I suppose i could try and make an extension for FIRS which would reintroduce Power stations and a new chain for waste. It would be my first GRF project ever with regards to coding tho!! So don't expect it to be quick

I'll start drawing some graphics and see what i can come up with.

Besides most fossil fuel burning plants produce slurry which has to be taken somewhere

You could well re-use the existing powerplant sprites. They can be referenced.

[michael blunck]

[...] IRL powerstation (esxpecially coal ones) produce (air) pollution, a kind of a waste. My suggestion is that the powerstation in-game produces waste too but at a very low ratio, i.e. 20 tons of coal for 1 ton of waste, or even less.
[...]
I know CO2 and other stuff are gasses IRL but here they could be all classified under "waste".

In ECS, power stations are producing sulphur as a by-product.

regards
Michael

[Voyager One]

In ECS, power stations are producing sulphur as a by-product.

Also OK. As long as the powerstation doesn't remain an endless hole to put coal in and earn quick money.

[Leanden]

I suppose i could try and make an extension for FIRS which would reintroduce Power stations and a new chain for waste. It would be my first GRF project ever with regards to coding tho!! So don't expect it to be quick

I'll start drawing some graphics and see what i can come up with.

Besides most fossil fuel burning plants produce slurry which has to be taken somewhere

You could well re-use the existing powerplant sprites. They can be referenced.

That would do for coal burning plants, but id like to include oil and waste burning plants, this would of course mean that waste from power plants couldn't be the same as waste from cities.

Also how difficult would it be to extend other town replacement sets to produce waste for a FIRS extension?

[andythenorth]

this would of course mean that waste from power plants couldn't be the same as waste from cities.

This may be useful to you (sort the table by cargo bit): http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/schema/cargos

Note that cargo bits 1E and 1F need to be swapped in the next release of FIRS. This is because NARS2 uses 1E for regearing (I assumed wrongly that it used 1F).

[oberhümer]

id like to include oil and waste burning plants

Someone made a NewGRF that adds an oil-burning power plant once, I have it but need to check who made it.

(Found it, the graphics are by Born Acorn.)

[Leanden]

Was that NewGRF compatible with FIRS?

[planetmaker]

Was that NewGRF compatible with FIRS?

No existing industry newgrf is compatible with FIRS. You'll have to write that yourself, I'm afraid

[Leanden]

Thats a shame, I notice here though, that a Coal Power Station, Incinerator and Waste chain are already in the set just not implemented yet. So writing an extension would be pointless if these are already to be included.