FIRS Industry Replacement Set - releases

[andythenorth]

FIRS 4.4.0 now on Bananas

Changelog: https://grf.farm/firs/4.4.0/html/changelog.html

[3iff]

I see this is on bananas, but I only get the option to download via ingame...I can't do that as I'm not using my own computer.
Is there an alternate source?

I'm not awkward deliberately!

[JacobD88]

I see this is on bananas, but I only get the option to download via ingame...I can't do that as I'm not using my own computer.
Is there an alternate source?

Bananas IS the in-game downloader. There is little point in downloading outside of the game?

I'm not sure why you would want to install separately to the in-game service either? Any computer you play on, would be able to access the Bananas distribution if it has web access, and, if OpenTTD is installed as a none-portable application, any GRFs you download in game would be attached to the %APPDATA% location for the user you logged into the computer as, not everyone who uses that PC...

Additionally, even if you use a shared user account, the GRF would only be loaded if you explicitly told OpenTTD to use it on a new game start... It should not matter if it sits around in the NewGRF folder at all other times?

Nonetheless, so far as I'm aware the only way to get it outside of Bananas is to download the source and compile it yourself or copy the NewGRF from another PC where it is already downloaded.

The source can be found here https://github.com/andythenorth/firs

[3iff]

I'm using a library computer and I'm not allowed to install any software on the computer.
Hence I'm NOT ABLE to access the in-game loader because I can't run the game on this box.

We used to be able to download stuff directly...

A non-portable application? You mean install it on a USB stick? Even so, I doubt this library computer would permit it. I tried before with a text editor and its reply was "computer says NO".

[wallyweb]

We used to be able to download stuff directly...

Most GRF authors offer a manually downloadable version in their first post.
However, from your description, I would say they would be equally unsupported.
A suggestion would be to find an inexpensive used machine often available from computer repair shops. You might even be able to set up a rather ancient PC as a dedicated OpenTTD box.
Good luck.

[3iff]

The main problem is I don't have my own internet access, it's currently via the local library and the PC's are very locked down.

I put ottd on a flash drive and tried to run it but doing so is "blocked by group policy".

It's not as if I'm a newbie...just someone without regular unrestricted internet access...

[wallyweb]

...

Is the block at the library's PC level or at the server? If they offer wi-fi then it might not be blocked for personal lap-top access.

[kamnet]

...

Is the block at the library's PC level or at the server? If they offer wi-fi then it might not be blocked for personal lap-top access.

If it's like mine, you don't get to connect your own computer to the network, and you're using whatever computer the library has with whatever restrictions are on the computer.

I also miss not being able to download files that are uploaded to the bananas server from outside of the game.

[erdek]

Hi, I'm have been playing with Firs 3 since almost when I discovered OTTD a couple of years ago, so thank you so much for this great set!!

With Firs 4 I have found some little issues with the Spanish translation, but perhaps it's just a problem of my set up (i'm with Ottd 1.10.0 yet). Anyway I let you know just in case you want to check it. I simply don't know anything about the tecnical side of the game... very little about how to play it too.

In Basic Temperate all the cargoes and industries are correctly translated except "Steel Mill", and in Basic Sub Artic the name of the industries are ok but one of the cargos, "logs", is not translated. This "logs" are too in Hot Country.

Please excuse my english and if I'm bothering you with a problem just caused by my old version of the game.

Edited to delete the Renewed Village Growth thing. It is mentioned on its own threat.

[kaosfere]

In response to a post about hotels in FIRS4 being quite far from towns, andythenorth said:

Town location check might be broken, thanks for spotting

I was just giving FIRS 4.4 a spin and noticed the same thing -- this behavior is definitely still there and definitely different from how it was in FIRS3. It looks like other hotel-related bugs have been fixed since that post, but the hotels are still out there in the wilderness. Since it was never acknowledged further, I just wanted to make sure that that is now intended behavior, and not something that fell through the cracks.

(If it's intended behavior, it might be useful update the docs so hotels aren't listed as "town industries". That's a bit confusing if they're not actually in towns.

[andythenorth]

FIRS 4.5.0 now on Bananas.

FIRS 4.5.0 is not savegame-compatible with any previous version of FIRS.

Changes

• added larger layouts using 'outpost' approach for following industries
  • Chlor-alkali Plant
  • Coke Oven
  • Sheet and Pipe Mill
  • Wire and Section Mill
  • these are experimental, and intended to ease station placement for certain industries that produce 3 or more cargos

Codechanges

• various Makefile tweaks
• experiments in town happiness / town economy and primary industry production increases, all feature-flagged off currently as unfinished

The main change is intended to increase station building area for specific Steeltown industries. There are many ways to play OpenTTD, and for many players this change won't be of interest. However for some of us it makes it easier to create separate pickup stations for each produced cargo.

In the example below there are 52 extra tiles for building rail stations which will cover the industry, but only 4 extra industry tiles used. This is an efficient way to increase industry catchment without using too much route building area.

This is an experimental feature, and may be removed in a future release, or alternatively extended to more Steeltown industries (Blast Furnace etc).

Rail tracks show the catchment with and without the 2x2 'outpost'.

firs-4-5-0.png (357.26 KiB) Viewed 8535 times

[andythenorth]

FIRS 4.6.0 now on bananas.

FIRS 4.6.0 is not savegame-compatible with any previous version of FIRS.

4.6.0 Release

Changes

• added larger layouts using 'outpost' approach for Basic Oxygen Furnace
• improved Slag Grinding Plant sprites and layouts
• improved layouts for Sheet and Pipe Mill, Wire and Section Mill
• added detail to Blast Furnace sprites (2TallTyler)
• improved incompatible industries checks (2TallTyler)

Translations

• translation updates (thanks translators)

[odisseus]

I see a couple of problems with the outpost layout.

• It will be harder to predict the industry's placement when funding it.
• As far as I understand, a wide layout reduces the chance of successful industry placement during map generation.
• In Steeltown, some types of industries tend to be spawned in clusters. Wide industry layouts with gaps tend to create a maze of narrow corridors that make it difficult to place a large station.
• A station placed inside the cluster already tends to have many industries inside its catchment area. With wider industry layouts, this will encourage players to build a single drop station for everything, a practice which I find boring.
• Combined with the large station spread (necessary if you want long trains), the wide industry layouts encourage cargo teleporting.

[andythenorth]

• It will be harder to predict the industry's placement when funding it.
• As far as I understand, a wide layout reduces the chance of successful industry placement during map generation.

Yes those are known side effects.

To aid placement during funding, the funded tile will always result in an industry tiles being placed there. I tested and removed some possible outpost locations that didn't build any industry tile on the funded tile (or anywhere near it in fact).

To aid map generation, the size of the 'core' part of the layout has been reduced in many cases. The outposts also have multiple location options. This does remain a possible issue though, as the industries need large flat areas. There has been a bit of work looking at how OpenTTD places industries, and whether it can be improved.

In testing, failures are common with Basic Oxygen Furnace on smallish (512x512) maps that are mountainous, very rough, have no variety and have high sea level. Other types seem to build reliably. The main cause of failure for the BOF is actually the distance check to Blast Furnace.

• In Steeltown, some types of industries tend to be spawned in clusters. Wide industry layouts with gaps tend to create a maze of narrow corridors that make it difficult to place a large station.

I have seen this and agree, it could be a problem. One option would be to increase the current check for nearby industries, which requires 2 tiles minimum distance.

• A station placed inside the cluster already tends to have many industries inside its catchment area. With wider industry layouts, this will encourage players to build a single drop station for everything, a practice which I find boring.
• Combined with the large station spread (necessary if you want long trains), the wide industry layouts encourage cargo teleporting.

Single drop station is more-or-less intended, that's how I play mostly, except when it's more convenient to split stations for ease of building track.

Cargo teleporting I have no opinion on and it's not a factor in the design.

Generally I am against adding parameters, but it would be quite possible in theory to provide a parameter option to disable outpost layouts, leaving only the core layouts. I may or may not do that.

[ChillCore]

I like what I'm seeing here ... @the outpost thingie

As for needing a lot (more) of flat land ... I have two things to say about those ...


- When I debugged the MHL patch and my patchpack I, kinda, fixed industry placement by allowing industries to level more heightlevels to make room for themselves to be place at all.
- Does the outpost need to be on the same level of the industry it belongs to? IMHO not at all ... Maybe ask George how he did the requirements to have his castle to built at all ... you can not do it on flat land at all ... just a hint/suggestion.



Thank you for your continued efforts Andy ... you pushed what OpenTTD can be by a lot over the years and are still doing it

[wallyweb]

... Maybe ask George how he did the requirements to have his castle to built at all ...

Each tile in George's castle has its own slope. Each ground tile must be properly sloped before building the castle.

[ChillCore]

... Maybe ask George how he did the requirements to have his castle to built at all ...

Each tile in George's castle has its own slope. Each ground tile must be properly sloped before building the castle.

True ... and it's a b**** to build xD ... I only did it once and I loved the marching knights ...

What I meant is that flat land for all of it (the industries and the outposts(*)) is not required and could be simplified somewhat by a combination of GRF coding and actual codechanges in the source of OpenTTD.



(*)wishfull thinking

[andythenorth]

- When I debugged the MHL patch and my patchpack I, kinda, fixed industry placement by allowing industries to level more heightlevels to make room for themselves to be place at all.

Unfortunately CheckIfCanLevelIndustryPlatform is only called if custom_shape_check is false, i.e. tile callback 2F isn't used.

FIRS tiles use callback 2F for things like checking distance to nearby industry tiles, and other similar placement checks.

This is an area where OpenTTD might benefit from improvement.

Regarding outposts at alternative height levels, for FIRS, currently all tiles in the layout just check they are same height as industry tile 0,0. This is crude but simple.

I do have a branch which has some quite complex code to generate relative tile offsets for each tile to the north tile for each sub-layout and put them in (a lot) of height-check switches.

Sadly that had unexpected results in OpenTTD even though the NML looked correct. Might be that negative offsets aren't supported, or an OBIWAN or something similar, but I parked it as too much work to investigate further

[andythenorth]

FIRS 4.7.0 now on bananas.

FIRS 4.7.0 is not savegame-compatible with any previous version of FIRS.

4.7.0 adjusts layouts for the Basic Oxygen Furnace, also adding an animated metal casting line to this industry.

GIF is a bit dark and low quality, but eh, you get the general idea.

basic oxygen furnace animation 2.gif (10.47 MiB) Viewed 7969 times

[ChillCore]

FIRS 4.7.0 now on bananas.

FIRS 4.7.0 is not savegame-compatible with any previous version of FIRS.

4.7.0 adjusts layouts for the Basic Oxygen Furnace, also adding an animated metal casting line to this industry.

GIF is a bit dark and low quality, but eh, you get the general idea.


basic oxygen furnace animation 2.gif

Outpost on the south eh?