As time passes...

OpenTTD is a fully open-sourced reimplementation of TTD, written in C++, boasting improved gameplay and many new features.

Moderator: OpenTTD Developers

Post Reply
User avatar
Jubilee
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 72
Joined: 18 May 2011 08:03

As time passes...

Post by Jubilee »

1. As time passes, vehicle Max Reliability is decreased. Ok, let's assume that this is acceptable for older vehicle models (getting difficult to find replacement parts etc.). What about vehicle models that have no replacement (like Guru X2 helicopters)? It would be nice if there was an option which would protect vehicles that are at the end of the evolution line from having their Max Reliability decreased. That way a game could remain playable practically forever, if one wishes.

2. As time passes and vehicles get old, one can select to replace them with a newer model. Is there a way to replace a certain vehicle with the same model when it gets old? In the "Replace vehicle" window, whatever you select in "vehicles in use" disappears from "available vehicles". I think i can understand the logic behind it but i have to ask, "why"? If someone is crazy rich and wants to spend his money replacing vehicles with the exact same model, why is OTTD preventing him from doing so?
-----
Chaney 'Jubilee' (Steam powered)
User avatar
odisseus
Director
Director
Posts: 581
Joined: 01 Nov 2017 21:19

Re: As time passes...

Post by odisseus »

There is no such thing as an "evolution line". Each vehicle model is independent of others; it has its own introduction year and expiration year. After the expiration date, the peak reliability for the given model will drop very quickly, and eventually will reach zero.

Actually, some vehicles (e. g. Dinger 200) have no expiration year; their peak reliability will reach a stable value between 70 and 100 %, and remain at that value forever. Notably, neither of the two helicopter models have this property. This is arguably an oversight in game design, but it was this way in the original TTD (or so I've heard). Some time ago, the Wiki even used to recommend against using heliports, because they become completely unserviceable after some date.

However, there is a setting that turns off vehicle expiration, and another one that turns off breakdowns entirely. There are also add-ons that provide futuristic helicopter models, some of which have no expiration year.

As for replacing old vehicles with vehicles of the same model, this functionality is called "autorenew" and can be found in the settings.
User avatar
Jubilee
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 72
Joined: 18 May 2011 08:03

Re: As time passes...

Post by Jubilee »

Hi. Thanks for all your input to my questions.
odisseus wrote: 11 Jan 2023 22:50 There is no such thing as an "evolution line". Each vehicle model is independent of others; it has its own introduction year and expiration year. After the expiration date, the peak reliability for the given model will drop very quickly, and eventually will reach zero.
Come-on, don't be so literal. For example, what i meant is that Electric Trains reach up to Lev4 and then there's nothing else. That's the last of the "evolution line". Nothing after it. I didn't mean that Lev4 depends on Lev3.
odisseus wrote: 11 Jan 2023 22:50Actually, some vehicles (e. g. Dinger 200) have no expiration year; their peak reliability will reach a stable value between 70 and 100 %, and remain at that value forever. Notably, neither of the two helicopter models have this property. This is arguably an oversight in game design, but it was this way in the original TTD (or so I've heard). Some time ago, the Wiki even used to recommend against using heliports, because they become completely unserviceable after some date.
That's what i was proposing. The "last-of-the-line" vehicle (in all types) to have no expiration date (like the Dinger 200 you mentioned).
odisseus wrote: 11 Jan 2023 22:50However, there is a setting that turns off vehicle expiration, and another one that turns off breakdowns entirely. There are also add-ons that provide futuristic helicopter models, some of which have no expiration year.
Yup, i knew of those options but i think with them active, the game looses some of its "real-feel".
odisseus wrote: 11 Jan 2023 22:50 As for replacing old vehicles with vehicles of the same model, this functionality is called "autorenew" and can be found in the settings.
Hmmm. I have this setting "On" and Autorenew interval is at 6 months, however in the game i currently have, i had a vehicle that had reached +9yrs after its expiration and was still going on without replacement. I'll do some research, maybe the vehicle was expired and had been removed...

EDIT: Probably that's what happened, because i set it to fast-forward mode and i saw another vehicle being auto-replaced.
-----
Chaney 'Jubilee' (Steam powered)
User avatar
jfs
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 1771
Joined: 08 Jan 2003 23:09
Location: Denmark

Re: As time passes...

Post by jfs »

Another problem with updating the game data for original vehicles is the way the NewGRF modding system is built. When you define a new vehicle type in a NewGRF, what you actually do is clone the data from an existing model and then change the things you want to be different. This means that, theoretically, changing the expiration date for Guru X2 in the base game data could affect the function of NewGRF's in an unintended way. That's why this hasn't been changed long ago already.
Eddi
Tycoon
Tycoon
Posts: 8282
Joined: 17 Jan 2007 00:14

Re: As time passes...

Post by Eddi »

Jubilee wrote: 11 Jan 2023 23:21That's what i was proposing. The "last-of-the-line" vehicle (in all types) to have no expiration date (like the Dinger 200 you mentioned).
you can do that with a simple NewGRF (takes only a few lines), but like said, the default vehicles probably won't be changed to do this.

you can also use one of the aircraft replacement NewGRFs like AV8 (or its successor AV9)
User avatar
Jubilee
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 72
Joined: 18 May 2011 08:03

Re: As time passes...

Post by Jubilee »

Thank you all for the info. I guess that's the way to go...
-----
Chaney 'Jubilee' (Steam powered)
User avatar
odisseus
Director
Director
Posts: 581
Joined: 01 Nov 2017 21:19

Re: As time passes...

Post by odisseus »

Actually, I think I could create such a NewGRF.

Does anybody know where to get the ID numbers of the default vehicles so that their properties can be overriden?

P.S. Found it: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleIDs
User avatar
odisseus
Director
Director
Posts: 581
Joined: 01 Nov 2017 21:19

Re: As time passes...

Post by odisseus »

Here you are.

This add-on disables expiration for the Guru X2 helicopter, as well as a few steam and diesel engines of different classes.

Feel free to use, modify and distribute it however you please.
Attachments
veh.grf
Persistence for vehicle evolution lines
(409 Bytes) Downloaded 48 times
sources.7z
Source files for the add-on
(738 Bytes) Downloaded 46 times
User avatar
Jubilee
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 72
Joined: 18 May 2011 08:03

Re: As time passes...

Post by Jubilee »

That's great! Thank you very much for your time.

I'm not sure where it should go though. The only folder i found with .grf files is "OpenTTD\baseset" (installation dir). Should i place it there? Or perhaps under "Documents\OpenTTD\baseset" or "Documents\OpenTTD\content_download\baseset"?
-----
Chaney 'Jubilee' (Steam powered)
User avatar
PikkaBird
Graphics Moderator
Graphics Moderator
Posts: 5602
Joined: 13 Sep 2004 13:21
Location: The Moon

Re: As time passes...

Post by PikkaBird »

Put it in documents\openttd\newgrf
User avatar
Jubilee
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 72
Joined: 18 May 2011 08:03

Re: As time passes...

Post by Jubilee »

Thanks. I activated it in my current game and it seems to work perfectly!

Still, even though my settings are as shown in the pic that follows, my vehicles are not auto-renewed. Not only helicopters, all vehicles (i have trains, airplanes and ships, no road-vehs). The money my company has are in the millions. A bug maybe?
ottd.png
ottd.png (9.17 KiB) Viewed 2856 times
Thanks to all.
-----
Chaney 'Jubilee' (Steam powered)
Auge
Director
Director
Posts: 639
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 02:07
Location: Berlin

Re: As time passes...

Post by Auge »

Hello
Jubilee wrote: 15 Jan 2023 18:46 Still, even though my settings are as shown in the pic that follows, my vehicles are not auto-renewed. Not only helicopters, all vehicles (i have trains, airplanes and ships, no road-vehs). The money my company has are in the millions. A bug maybe?
Do your vehicles visit depots? If not, they can't get auto-renewed.

Tschö, Auge
User avatar
Jubilee
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 72
Joined: 18 May 2011 08:03

Re: As time passes...

Post by Jubilee »

Auge wrote: 15 Jan 2023 20:20Do your vehicles visit depots? If not, they can't get auto-renewed.

Tschö, Auge
Well, i followed a chopper. When it landed at an airport, its reliability went from 38% to 50%, so i'd say Yes. Still, not auto-replaced though, and it's 21 yrs old (out of 20 max).
-----
Chaney 'Jubilee' (Steam powered)
Auge
Director
Director
Posts: 639
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 02:07
Location: Berlin

Re: As time passes...

Post by Auge »

Hello
Jubilee wrote: 15 Jan 2023 20:58
Auge wrote: 15 Jan 2023 20:20Do your vehicles visit depots? If not, they can't get auto-renewed.
Well, i followed a chopper. When it landed at an airport, its reliability went from 38% to 50%, so i'd say Yes. Still, not auto-replaced though, and it's 21 yrs old (out of 20 max).
Ok, it is a game setting to service a helicopter on the landing pad. But this is not a visit in a depot at all. On the landing pad the helicopter can get a technical service but the vehicle can't not get replaced there. The vehicle has to visit a depot to get replaced. So because the service at the landing pad is a special case for helicopters, vehicles of all other vehicle classes should get replaced.

Tschö, Auge
User avatar
Jubilee
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 72
Joined: 18 May 2011 08:03

Re: As time passes...

Post by Jubilee »

OK, i think it's not only with helicopters but i'll check it out.
-----
Chaney 'Jubilee' (Steam powered)
User avatar
Jubilee
Engineer
Engineer
Posts: 72
Joined: 18 May 2011 08:03

Re: As time passes...

Post by Jubilee »

Jubilee wrote: 15 Jan 2023 21:08 OK, i think it's not only with helicopters but i'll check it out.
Yup. Helicopters (only) are not auto-replaced if the "perform maintenance on helipads" is active. Once i removed it, it worked.

Thanks for reminding me of that setting Auge.
-----
Chaney 'Jubilee' (Steam powered)
Auge
Director
Director
Posts: 639
Joined: 23 Oct 2006 02:07
Location: Berlin

Re: As time passes...

Post by Auge »

Hello
Jubilee wrote: 22 Jan 2023 15:25 Yup. Helicopters (only) are not auto-replaced if the "perform maintenance on helipads" is active. Once i removed it, it worked.
I'm glad, it helped. You generally would not need to deactivate this setting. You could also send the helicopters to a depot by hand (if there are only a few of them) or by sending them all to depots, if they are part of a group. But that can lead to a difficult handling (depending of the specific scenario).

Tschö, Auge
Post Reply

Return to “General OpenTTD”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests