Aquaduct GRF for nightly r1498.

BobDendry · Post by **BobDendry** » 18 Apr 2007 09:11

JGR: It isn't working as intended. See picture attached. Disregarding the offset errors:
Firstly, both the bridgeheads are using the same sprite.
Secondly, the pillars are being drawn on top of the aqueduct.

JGR · Post by **JGR** » 18 Apr 2007 09:25

Number 1 was fixed in r1504 this morning and hence will be available in tommorow's nightly.
For number two try fiddling the offset ( see here: I only stumbled across this yesterday... http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... lperWindow), and/or upload the GRF so I can have a closer look.

JGR

BobDendry · Post by **BobDendry** » 18 Apr 2007 10:58

Alright. The pillars aren't drawn over ONLY the canal circled in red.
They are drawn over the tile circled in black, and, as you can see, the train is drawn over part of the aqueduct.

JGR · Post by **JGR** » 18 Apr 2007 15:32

WhiteHand: This affects all bridges. Turning off the new sprite sorter corrects this but then reintroduces lots of other horrible clipping errors...

As for the pillars, let me give you an otherwise counterintuitive tip, that I only got after studying the existing bridge sprites and the TTD bridge sprite tables... This is probably documented somewhere on the wiki for bridge sprite replacement...
The two pillars are for the visible front edge of the tile. Not for the hidden and visible edge of a tile. Hence the two pillars should be in the same line as the bridge's direction.
Therefore, you can get away fine with just one pillar in the sprite, for one sprite at each corner, as in the tubular steel bridge, etc.
Take a closer look at the sprites in the GRF in the first post.

JGR

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 18 Apr 2007 15:46

As usally I await your updates for the Landscape Data File

and great work!

Can I hire you unpaid for my ideas?

I think my helper sprite (for enhancetunnels) may help with sorting the top sprites right... http://svn.ttdpatch.net/trac/browser/tr ... g.asm#L173
It even has comments

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 18 Apr 2007 17:12

Heh, funny. I drew an aqueduct ages ago.

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 18 Apr 2007 17:37

Purno wrote:Heh, funny. I drew an aqueduct ages ago.

Do you still have the graphics? Maybe it can be adapted?

JGR · Post by **JGR** » 18 Apr 2007 18:33

eis_os:
Landscape update has been emailed.

Can I hire you unpaid for my ideas?

Paid, perhaps...

As for the last, I will play around with that.
The snag is that I never really worked out how the sprite sorter is supposed to work.
Are we talking, sorting by z value? In that you would plonk the 'helper sprite' higher and then have the actual sprite drawn relatively lower? Not sure

Thanks for the pointer though:

JGR

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 18 Apr 2007 19:25

wallyweb wrote:
Purno wrote:Heh, funny. I drew an aqueduct ages ago.
Do you still have the graphics? Maybe it can be adapted?

Yeah, it was one of the 15 bridges I drew, though I gave it a road texture like all bridges. It needs water surface texture tho, but it's based on a real-life aqueduct.

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 18 Apr 2007 20:38

JGR wrote:The snag is that I never really worked out how the sprite sorter is supposed to work.

The sprite sorter (and its issues) had been discussed extensively both on the TTD mailing list and in the developer´s mailing list.

I just checked for "sprite sorter" and the TTD mailing list gave me this posting from Marcin. I think there must be even more detailed posts of him about this, and I´ll check my ttd-devel box as well.

In any way, Marcin is the man you want to talk to.

regards
Michael

SHADOW-XIII · Post by **SHADOW-XIII** » 19 Apr 2007 12:16

amazing !

Redirect Left · Post by **Redirect Left** » 19 Apr 2007 12:55

@ JGR: Your ability to do the impossible never ceases to amaze

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 19 Apr 2007 13:18

Pikkabird's viaduct would make for an excellent aqueduct.
Perhaps a stone texture similar to the old style canal walls.
Any thoughts?

m3henry · Post by **m3henry** » 19 Apr 2007 16:19

wallyweb wrote:Pikkabird's viaduct would make for an excellent aqueduct.
Perhaps a stone texture similar to the old style canal walls.
Any thoughts?

pikka is considering this.
but for the early aquaducts, a stone/brick construction would be used with cast iron plates for the waterway + a small walkway used for the horse to pull on

Post by **Dave** » 19 Apr 2007 17:38

I was gonna say... What you need is a cast iron bridge.

Born Acorn · Post by **Born Acorn** » 19 Apr 2007 17:49

Pronounce this if you can! (I can't!)

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 19 Apr 2007 18:19

Dave Worley wrote:I was gonna say... What you need is a cast iron bridge.

Cast iron bridges were indeed used for navigable aqueducts. But if you look at the images you will find that most were made of stone which by its very weight tended to seal or minimize any leaks. Keep in mind that aqueduct refers to a water channel that is not necessarily elevated. Our impressions of aqueducts as being elevated are largely derived from those images of the Roman engineering feats. These aqueducts were not for navigation but rather for sourcing potable water. Navigable aqueducts, aka water bridges, were a solution to a problem of building canals over undulating terrain, as an alternative to a series of locks to lower then raise a vessel across a depression/valley. They were largely constructed of the materials at hand. Perhaps what we need is a time based set of navigable viaducts: 1. stone, 2. iron, 3. steel. My first choice is stone because it matches the ttdx character of our current canal set.

Born Acorn wrote:Pronounce this if you can! (I can't!)

Do you mean this ? pɔntkəˈsʌɬtɛ

Heiko1980 · Post by **Heiko1980** » 19 Apr 2007 18:44

Thats looking cool...

But.. s***... i can´t download it.. so somebody of you here get this grf working and will send it to me via E-Mail?
Would be nice...

Edit: Thx to wallyweb i've got it

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 19 Apr 2007 19:17

Now all you've got to fix is bridges over aqueducts and we can model the interesting crossing in Håverud, Sweden. Road and rail (on separate bridges) cross over the aqueduct, and all three cross the stream!

Nice work, JGR!

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 19 Apr 2007 19:39

wallyweb wrote:Keep in mind that aqueduct refers to a water channel that is not necessarily elevated. Our impressions of aqueducts as being elevated are largely derived from those images of the Roman engineering feats. These aqueducts were not for navigation but rather for sourcing potable water. Navigable aqueducts, aka water bridges, were a solution to a problem of building canals over undulating terrain, as an alternative to a series of locks to lower then raise a vessel across a depression/valley.

Yeah, it´s again the British who talk in a misleading way.

IMO, the (english) term "aqueduct" for a "water bridge" is misleading, because "aqueduct" (lat.) = "water pipe". I know of no roman aqueduct which could be used for navigation rather than being used for water supply.

This caught my interest and I checked the english Wiki for that and indeed it states:

"An aqueduct is an artificial channel that is constructed to convey water from one location to another. The word is derived from the Latin aqua, "water," and ducere, "to lead." Many aqueducts are raised above the landscape, resembling bridges rather than rivers."

So far so good, but ...

"Sufficiently large aqueducts (water bridges) may also be usable by ships."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduct

<cough>

... where the french Wiki simply states:

"Un Aqueduc désigne un ouvrage destiné à l'adduction d'eau pour la consommation d'une ville."
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqueduc

And the german one only uses this term for the roman-type aqueduct (for water supply).

Interestingly, some of the Wiki entries with regards to canals use "bridge" instead of "aqueduct", e.g.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dortmund-Ems_Canal
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dortmund-Ems-Kanal

and in the corresponding german entry, the term "Kanalüberführung" (literally: canal overpass) is used as well.

regards
Michael

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