FIRS Industry Replacement Set - releases

[leifbk]

is this a bug?

Like kamnet, I knew I'd seen that bug before, so I looked back in this thread and found the issue:

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... 0#p1156183

[Sylf]

The culprit is Preindustrial era houses.
If I'm not mistaken, that game is made with Temperate Basic economy setting for FIRS. That economy doesn't have power plant - you shouldn't see it.
From Preindustrial era houses readme:

Power plant is not available prior [to] certain date (1882 by default).

To make this happen that NewGRF re-coded the power plant industry without recoding the cargo definition or cargo ID.

So, treat that NewGRF incompatible with most industry newgrfs.

[Ogre]

Save attached used 1.6.0 Stable (Linux Build)

The issue is, as already stated, pre-industrial houses' power plant. Aside from unloading the newgrf, you may want to disable the power plant by parameter, as the coal accepting houses seem to be compatible with FIRS. The only newgrf industry compatible with FIRS that I am aware of is the logging camp.

[andythenorth]

Thanks.

I'll add "Preindustrial era houses" to the compatibility checks so that FIRS disables itself if that grf is present

[andythenorth]

2.0.1 is now on Bananas

--------------
2.0.1 Release
--------------

*Changes*

- reduce port-type industries supply requirements to 8x parameter setting, not 10x (10x is too hard)
- reduce fund cost of Supply Yard

*Fixes*

- make Copper cargo colour different to Wool in industry chain, cargo payment chart
- Plastics Plant had wrong string in Arctic Basic economy

*Translations*

- multiple languages updated

[literally]

I probably wouldn't play TTD if this set didn't exist. Adds a level of complexity to the economy that is unmatched.

However I wouldn't mind...

1. Gold as a resource: Gold is a very versatile commodity. Gold ore (from gold mine) + Chemicals (from various sources) = Gold (at one of the iron/steel smelters, which becomes a general smelter) ---> Gold (from the smelter) is then accepted by a Bank. The gold can be used as both valuables or as another production input. I guess the gold would have the effect of growing towns like goods do.

2. A semiconductor industry in the later years: Sand (Quarry) + Coal (Coal mine) = Silicon (at glass works?) ---> Silicon (from a glass works?) + Chemicals (from various) = Semiconductors (at NEW semiconductor factory) ---> Semiconductors (from semiconductor factory) + Gold (from smelter) = Goods (at NEW electronics factory)

These additions will add a new vector with the creation of only two new resources and three new buildings.

Oh, and please add the vehicle factory to the Extreme version of the 2.0 patch. It makes a more interesting use for metal.

[andythenorth]

1. Gold as a resource:

Gold is likely to show up in a future economy, either from refining other ores (gold is a side-product of copper and pyrite smelting), or from a gold mine or gold dredge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_dredge

2. A semiconductor industry in the later years:

Electronics chain probably will also show up in some future economy.

please add the vehicle factory to the Extreme version of the 2.0 patch

Nah, it also requires Vehicle Parts cargo, and there's no room left in Extreme for more cargos. But it might show up in a future heavy industry economy.

So...more economies are planned, but it takes about a year to get a new economy designed, drawn, coded and shipped.

[Ogre]

...
Nah, it also requires Vehicle Parts cargo, and there's no room left in Extreme for more cargos. But it might show up in a future heavy industry economy.
...

Maybe the vehicle factory could be used as a graphical alternative for the machine shop in complex economy. But what am I reading??? Heavy industry economy? Oh dear... this sounds good. Do you have any precise information already?

[andythenorth]

Heavy industry economy? Oh dear... this sounds good. Do you have any precise information already?

Zero, and there's no plan to work on it at the moment

Imprecise information, a.k.a ideas

Expanded metal (iron/steel) chain, no attempt to be accurate, but multi-stage production. Possibilities:
- coal -> coke plant -> fuel -> furnace
- lime or other flux -> furnace
- iron ore -> taconite pellets -> furnace
- scrap -> electric arc furnace
- hot metal -> casting plant -> unfinished metal
- unfinished metal + manganese -> alloy plant -> stainless steel
- unfinished metal -> rolling plant -> finished metal
- furnace -> slag cement -> building materials

Too much detail would be boring, and this needs to prefer cargos that can plausibly be transported in volume over distances, no point building an OpenTTD model of a steel plant. Just ideas.

Because the constraint is 3 input cargos and 2 outputs, not all realism can be accommodated, and would be boring anyway.

Metal could be delivered to a range of end-point consumers, some could be black holes, e.g. ship yard.

Vehicle production would be an important chain.

Any industrial economy inevitably needs a lot of chemicals also, but I can't see much interest in expanding the details of petro-chemical chain, as it's mostly just liquids in tank cars moving between industries that have lots of pipes.

The main purpose of adding detail to a chain is (1) visual variety of industry types (2) visual variety of cargos transported (3) gameplay variety, e.g. where cargos go and what they're processed into.

RL inspiration would be Great Lakes of USA / Canada and similar industrial zones (parts of UK, or Rhine/Ruhr for example), but inspiration is just 'inspiration', not a model of RL

It could expand to include a wide range of mines for raw materials, but more likely it would use ports extensively as source of materials.

Might be interesting to add explosives as an export cargo, or form of engineering supplies, transport that in armoured vans

[Ogre]

...
RL inspiration would be Great Lakes of USA / Canada and similar industrial zones (parts of UK, or Rhine/Ruhr for example), but inspiration is just 'inspiration', not a model of RL
It could expand to include a wide range of mines for raw materials, but more likely it would use ports extensively as source of materials.
Might be interesting to add explosives as an export cargo, or form of engineering supplies, transport that in armoured vans

Thanks for your explanations. This sounds good, but, as you say, do not add too much detail in the cargo chains, as you are restricted to 32 cargoes (@Devs: Increasing the amount of cargoes would be a great addition, but I guess this is not that easy...).

Beware, explosives in an armoured van might increase their blast radius...

[Shadowclaimer]

Heavy industry economy? Oh dear... this sounds good. Do you have any precise information already?

Zero, and there's no plan to work on it at the moment

Imprecise information, a.k.a ideas

Expanded metal (iron/steel) chain, no attempt to be accurate, but multi-stage production. Possibilities:
- coal -> coke plant -> fuel -> furnace
- lime or other flux -> furnace
- iron ore -> taconite pellets -> furnace
- scrap -> electric arc furnace
- hot metal -> casting plant -> unfinished metal
- unfinished metal + manganese -> alloy plant -> stainless steel
- unfinished metal -> rolling plant -> finished metal
- furnace -> slag cement -> building materials

Too much detail would be boring, and this needs to prefer cargos that can plausibly be transported in volume over distances, no point building an OpenTTD model of a steel plant. Just ideas.

Because the constraint is 3 input cargos and 2 outputs, not all realism can be accommodated, and would be boring anyway.

Metal could be delivered to a range of end-point consumers, some could be black holes, e.g. ship yard.

Vehicle production would be an important chain.

Any industrial economy inevitably needs a lot of chemicals also, but I can't see much interest in expanding the details of petro-chemical chain, as it's mostly just liquids in tank cars moving between industries that have lots of pipes.

The main purpose of adding detail to a chain is (1) visual variety of industry types (2) visual variety of cargos transported (3) gameplay variety, e.g. where cargos go and what they're processed into.

RL inspiration would be Great Lakes of USA / Canada and similar industrial zones (parts of UK, or Rhine/Ruhr for example), but inspiration is just 'inspiration', not a model of RL

It could expand to include a wide range of mines for raw materials, but more likely it would use ports extensively as source of materials.

Might be interesting to add explosives as an export cargo, or form of engineering supplies, transport that in armoured vans

I'd like to throw in a vote for a Great Lakes/Detroit-esque economy or a Philadelphia-style heavy steel industry.

I'll try to write up a proposal for a "Great Plains" farming focused economy in a bit. It'll be hard to differentiate it heavily from Temperate but I think Soybeans, Natural Gas, and Limestone might make it interesting enough.

Here are my notes on it:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

The new goods are Corn, Soybeans, Limestone, Natural Gas, Ethanol, and Water.

The new industries are Limestone Quarry, Coal Gasifier, Reservoir, Stonecutter, and Natural Gas Field.

There are NO waterside industries (Bulk Terminals, Ports, etc.) which could be seen as a problem or a thematic choice depending. The Plastics Plant could just be swapped for a Port that does the exact same thing with possibly an extra input. This would primarily leave docks strictly for waterside industries or for passenger/mail transport, which fits. There's not really much water traffic here except on the rivers and even then its not like cargo container ships or barges.

The design itself is super heavy on farms, food, and "black holes" (Grocer, Hardware Store, Power Plant.) I think it really fits the aesthetic of the rural midwestern United States and the grain belt in general and would provide for some very fun and thematic play.

[kamnet]

The Fertilizer Plant could be exchanged for a Farmers Co-op. It would accept grain, soybeans and livestock, and produce farm supplies and manufacturing supplies.

[Shadowclaimer]

The Fertilizer Plant could be exchanged for a Farmers Co-op. It would accept grain, soybeans and livestock, and produce farm supplies and manufacturing supplies.

Oo I like the idea of the Co-Op being a building. Only issue is it creates direct T1 Resource to Supply conversion which is really, really strong.

[kamnet]

The Fertilizer Plant could be exchanged for a Farmers Co-op. It would accept grain, soybeans and livestock, and produce farm supplies and manufacturing supplies.

Oo I like the idea of the Co-Op being a building. Only issue is it creates direct T1 Resource to Supply conversion which is really, really strong.

It's effectively the same as the Trading Post in the Hot Country economy. And I should have said engineering supplies instead of manufacturing supplies, as there's no other engineering supplier in your chain, and the chemical plant can produce manufacturing supplies. Since this is a heavy agriculture economy then there should be plenty of grain and livestock farms to feed into it without hurting the other industries.

[Shadowclaimer]

The Fertilizer Plant could be exchanged for a Farmers Co-op. It would accept grain, soybeans and livestock, and produce farm supplies and manufacturing supplies.

Oo I like the idea of the Co-Op being a building. Only issue is it creates direct T1 Resource to Supply conversion which is really, really strong.

It's effectively the same as the Trading Post in the Hot Country economy. And I should have said engineering supplies instead of manufacturing supplies, as there's no other engineering supplier in your chain, and the chemical plant can produce manufacturing supplies. Since this is a heavy agriculture economy then there should be plenty of grain and livestock farms to feed into it without hurting the other industries.

Yea but the trading post is limited to water which is really important on some maps that are more landlocked (I'm playing on one right now and its a /nightmare/.) I definitely see what you're saying. I'm also limited to 20 industries, and I'd rather have an output or black hole for Ethanol in the form of a Petrol Station (which would also provide another Food/Goods outlet since Food is plentiful.)

I could also just swap the Plastics Plant for a Port, which is functionally the same with a lot of wiggle room to add more outputs/inputs.

[kamnet]

Oo I like the idea of the Co-Op being a building. Only issue is it creates direct T1 Resource to Supply conversion which is really, really strong.

It's effectively the same as the Trading Post in the Hot Country economy. And I should have said engineering supplies instead of manufacturing supplies, as there's no other engineering supplier in your chain, and the chemical plant can produce manufacturing supplies. Since this is a heavy agriculture economy then there should be plenty of grain and livestock farms to feed into it without hurting the other industries.

Yea but the trading post is limited to water which is really important on some maps that are more landlocked (I'm playing on one right now and its a /nightmare/.) I definitely see what you're saying. I'm also limited to 20 industries, and I'd rather have an output or black hole for Ethanol in the form of a Petrol Station (which would also provide another Food/Goods outlet since Food is plentiful.)

I could also just swap the Plastics Plant for a Port, which is functionally the same with a lot of wiggle room to add more outputs/inputs.

The trading post doesn't have to be limited to water. It's just a building with a water restriction on it, one that doesn't have to remain. I'm suggesting that instead of swapping the Plastics Plant for a post/port/co-op, use the Fertilizer Plant instead. Both of them accept plastic, but you don't really need both to accept plastic, the fertilizer plant already outputs farm supplies so adding engineering supplies (which you'll need for the mines) isn't a stretch either, since IRL that's mostly equipment and co-ops frequently rent or sell large-scale equipment.

[andythenorth]

FIRS 2.0.2 now on bananas.

--------------
2.0.2 Release
--------------

*Fixes*

- Metal Workshop production ratios wrong
- Smithy Forge production ratios wrong

*Translations*

- multiple languages updated

[supermop]

Here's a nice little vignette of a 64x128 FIRS 2 map, where I managed to shut down all traffic for all industry chains with some careless path signal work while paused...

Chuborough Transport, Sep 18th, 1992.png (226.49 KiB) Viewed 4538 times

[andythenorth]

Ha ha, always good to see screenshots of FIRS in action

[leifbk]

What a horrible wreckage

I'll also grab the opportunity to say that the new steel mill looks absolutely gorgeous