2CC Trams 0.9c & 2CC Cargo Trams v0.8r

[Voyager One]

Here's a few:

Kislovodsk Tram.PNG (12.49 KiB) Viewed 3296 times

Manchester Parcels Tram.PNG (11.34 KiB) Viewed 3296 times

Odessa MTV-82 Freight Tram.PNG (12.09 KiB) Viewed 3296 times

[Voyager One]

Melbourne Class U Freight Car.PNG (12.13 KiB) Viewed 3296 times

Melbourne Class V Freight Car.PNG (11.92 KiB) Viewed 3296 times

[Voyager One]

Ding-ding...

Oslo Type S Cargo Tram.PNG (12.55 KiB) Viewed 3262 times

Budapest MUKI Wagon.PNG (12.78 KiB) Viewed 3262 times

Buenos Aires Interurban Freight Car.PNG (11.74 KiB) Viewed 3262 times

[te_lanus]

Ding-ding...

Oslo Type S Cargo Tram.PNG

Budapest MUKI Wagon.PNG

Buenos Aires Interurban Freight Car.PNG

Looks Awesome . Can't wait till we gat a playable NewGRF

[Voyager One]

Then expect a treat... You'll get two grfs... one for passengers, another for freight.

[Pilot]

P.S. @A321 - You can still get a ManU livery with this...

Think I will skip on that one Looks good though, I sorta miss the T68s, preferred them to the M5000s.

[doxlulzem]

Here's a good futurisic tram - the new Russia 1 (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/urba ... ealed.html)
I can't find all the stats yet but there are a couple, but I'll do some digging around to see if I can find Max speed and stuff. Mind you, it is just a prototype. Not like they're being made or anything

EDIT: Stats I could find
Max Speed: "comparable to an electric train" - Rather vauge from one source, avg. 14mph (27km/h) from another
Cargo Capacity: 150-270 passengers (+around 24 standing)
IRL Cost: €1m
Weight: ???, Reading the materials, I'd guess about 3-5t?
Tractive Effort: ???
Power: ???

EDIT EDIT:
Just totally ignore this - I didn't notice you'd already done the R1
Oops. Oh well. Here's some stats.

[Voyager One]

Here's a good futurisic tram - the new Russia 1

Hahaha, you're a little late my friend. Already drawn, just look at the previous page...

P.S. @A321 - You can still get a ManU livery with this...

Think I will skip on that one Looks good though, I sorta miss the T68s, preferred them to the M5000s.

Whyyyyyy?!?!?! It would look soooooo nice in red and white...


EDIT:

Montreal Express Freight Motor.PNG (11.95 KiB) Viewed 3169 times

[Voyager One]

3 more and that's enough for today.

Cincinnati Kuhlman Mail & Baggage Motor.PNG (11.74 KiB) Viewed 3153 times

Manx Box Motor Car.PNG (12.16 KiB) Viewed 3153 times

Zutphen Vriijland Steam Tram.PNG (12.32 KiB) Viewed 3153 times

[Pilot]

P.S. @A321 - You can still get a ManU livery with this...

Think I will skip on that one Looks good though, I sorta miss the T68s, preferred them to the M5000s.

Whyyyyyy?!?!?! It would look soooooo nice in red and white...

Because I think it looks even better in blue and white

[romazoon]

I have a proposition for a cargo (and passenger tram! is it even doable in ottd?), and apparently it would be the oldest one in your set for freight (according the tracktable).

Also i would particularly be gratefull if you plan to include it as my hometown use to be one of the terminus of this tramway)

the name is "L'Arpajonnais", it s a tramway that have first runned in 1894 (and service stopped in 1937) that use to connect some towns south of paris (something like 35km south of paris) until les Halles in the center of paris (Les Halles at the time was a huge fresh product market).

It use to transport passengers AND freight (mostly vegetables and fruit), and freight was not so marginal (25 000 tonnes in 1927)

stats are rather slim at the moment, but here what i have :
service from 1894, and until 1937.
tram speed in service : 20km/h out of town, 12km/h inside town. some say service was running at an average speed of 15km/h.
power : steam
torque : ??
model : Tubize
weight : 25 tons (locomotive alone)
capacity : unknow, but i can count 5 wagons on some photo (wich two of them are double deck wagon), so probably quite a lot for a tram at that time.
fun fact : it have been said that passenger had to get off the tram, so said tram could climb a hill on the way to Paris.

EDiT : i realise no links takes you to the freight wagons...the photo are very sparse of the freight wagon unfortunately, i found one, but from far, i guess they look enough generic anyway to be drawn for ottd scale : https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... _dKVQ8R8vw

I selected three pictures for a fast review (check at the bottom) and here are some links :
http://www.photorail.fr/category/offres ... ien?page=2
http://c-m-f-a.skyrock.com/31.html <-- here is a reproduction in HO scale
http://www.google.ch/imgres?imgurl=http ... =0&ndsp=15 <-- with 5 wagons.
http://www.google.ch/imgres?imgurl=http ... 15&ndsp=22 <-- a double deck wagon in close view

[TinyMusic]

VoyagerOne = sprite machine

[kamnet]

I have a proposition for a cargo (and passenger tram! is it even doable in ottd?), and apparently it would be the oldest one in your set for freight (according the tracktable).

Any of the early steam or compressed air trams that had separate engines and wagons can be used create cargo trams.

[andythenorth]

I have a proposition for a cargo (and passenger tram! is it even doable in ottd?)

Not as far as I remember. Because road stops are split pax / freight, can't have road vehicles that carry both - won't be able to set orders. Might be misremembering, but I did try combined pax / mail trams for road hog.

Just make two versions, one pax, one freight?

[romazoon]

Any of the early steam or compressed air trams that had separate engines and wagons can be used create cargo trams.

yes true, then it s just a matter of how much you want to keep things "historic" i guess. but sure imho making all "tram loco" able to carry freight wagoons seems much more intuitive and userfriendly (good feature).

and i know voyager don t want to over shadow heqs trams, but please includes vegetables and fruits into the list of suitable cargo (shops in FIRS accept fruits if i m not mistaken).

And may i ask why you don t want to overshadow heqs trams ?? yours are real trams, heqs are not...and i personnaly think more diversity is better, and that adding limitation to player are bad feature ( i just mean allow us to refit to whatever we want, as long as the right freight wagons are avalaible)

Just make two versions, one pax, one freight?

thanks for the hint, i forgot about that truck/bus stop limits.
and yes, please make two version

[Snail]

Actually, this type of "tramway" is already present in the French NG set I'm working on:

screen tram1.png (9.88 KiB) Viewed 3070 times

screen tram2.png (9.01 KiB) Viewed 3070 times

It's coded as a train though. This allows it to carry any type of cargo simultaneously, but it won't allow it to run on tram tracks (as it happened in reality).

I didn't know there were doubledecker coaches though. Perhaps I should add them?

[Voyager One]

I have a proposition for a cargo... and passenger tram

Thanks for the suggestion and I'll immediately say I'll include it for the Cargo Tramset, not for the passengers' set. Reasons:
- the pax set is already well covered
- not the oldest as you say (we start in 1872)
- between 1870s and 1900s we have 3 French trams (one is a steam tram)

As I've said, it will be a nice inclusion for the Cargo set.
---

And may i ask why you don t want to overshadow heqs trams ?? yours are real trams, heqs are not...

Our trams may be real but be realistic yourself. I'll ask you a counter-question(s): How much were RL trams actually used for more than simple short-run in-town cargo deliveries? And what kind of cargoes did the mostly carry?

Be careful what you answer... there's a VERY thin line between a cargo tram and an "industrial narrow-gauge locomotive/train", especially in the older days. Unfortunately, most are the second type...

Also, this isn't supposed to be an industrial tramset as HEQS is.

HOWEVER, all is open to discussion, I'm not the one who will decide for all.
---

I didn't know there were doubledecker coaches though. Perhaps I should add them?

Find the "Paris Purrey Doubledecker Tram" somewhere in the beginning of our tracking table, there's a link to some webages with doubledecker coaches, I even think they're in French...
---

[kamnet]

And may i ask why you don t want to overshadow heqs trams ?? yours are real trams, heqs are not...

Our trams may be real but be realistic yourself. I'll ask you a counter-question(s): How much were RL trams actually used for more than simple short-run in-town cargo deliveries? And what kind of cargoes did the mostly carry?

Be careful what you answer... there's a VERY thin line between a cargo tram and an "industrial narrow-gauge locomotive/train", especially in the older days. Unfortunately, most are the second type...

Also, this isn't supposed to be an industrial tramset as HEQS is.

HOWEVER, all is open to discussion, I'm not the one who will decide for all.

It's not only a very thin line, but a blurred line as well.

In central Europe during the early 20th century many lines were labeled as "tram" and "tramway", but were typically built as narrow gauge railways with full locomotives and wagons, although they may not have been as powerful and heavy as some other industrial railways.

In the United States, particularly the Midwest and Western parts of the country, Interurban lines started out as significant upgrades to the smaller electric tram lines that then developed their own right-of-way between towns. Because of their lighter weight rails and cars, it was cheaper and more affordable for a transport company to build a network with them. Interurbans found that they could move freight from factory or food from farms to cities or larger transport hubs faster, and even perform industrial operations such as mining and transporting construction materials, and do it faster than cheaper than the steam railways. They tried to develop mutually beneficial relationships but eventually the steam railways would move to crush them through government regulation. They survived through WWII but after the governments had invested heavily in a national interstate highway program and road vehicles would steal what was left of both their passenger and freight services. As far as I know, there are only three such lines that still exist in the United States today, exclusively transporting cargo and industrial materials through urban areas: East Troy Electric, Texas Transportation and Iowa Traction. Still, some of the Interurban systems utilized a lot of equipment that you would see on heavier gauge railways. I have examples of equipment used in Western US mining operations and Midwestern and East Coast farming operations.

Oddly enough, as the Interurban business was dying in America, it started taking off in Europe, mostly mail, city cargo, farm foods and goods. Eventually this freight traffic would also go away, but the passenger services remained and would become the backbone for many of Europe's metro and modern lightrail passenger services.

Of course, there are a lot of vehicles not yet fully explored because they were not built by any factory for commercial purchase. Many tramway, Interurban and lightrail systems have built their own vehicles for non-passenger services. Typically built from wrecked or non-revenue passenger equipment, it's not uncommon for companies to strip a tram down to the bogies decks and transform them into various work cars and wagons. Wagons, box cars, dump trucks, salt spreaders, snow sweepers, water & brush trucks, side tippers, cranes, rail grinders, tower cars, line cars, ballast spreaders, concrete mixers, rail & lumber transport, line rescue vehicles.

...

Eventually I would like to explore the idea of an industrial tram set with vehicles used as short-distance transport. For example, running a tram from a cluster of mines or farms to a central collection point for pickup by trains, and then picking up farm or engineering supplies from that same point and distributing it back to the mines or farms. Or, even if it's just eye candy to make industrial operations seem more impressive, for example simulating vehicles that molten metal and waste in and out of steel mills, or moving coal and ash in and out of power plants.

But right now I'm more than happy expanding the "Trams of the World" concept to more simple mail and goods transport.

[romazoon]

Thanks for including the cargo version it will be great.

all is open to discussion

And on the matter of the "all cargo refit", you are surely right that most of those trams haven't transported all kind of cargo. But now come the difficulty to distinguish what should be used as a city cargo and what would not ( i mean beside food and good).

An exemple, is l'Arpajonnais, i said it carried mostly fruit and vegetables (is it a city cargo?) , well i was lying.... near my hometown (Marcoussis, a branch terminus station), there were quarries and the major destination for those rocks were Paris, via this tram line.

And on the way back from Paris, guess what the tram was carrying back in the "fields" ? well loads of fertilizer (animal and human poop ?!), to be dropped in the fields.

Of course you may think i m asking "the all refit" because of some historic reason(or because it was technically feasible)...but i actually don t really care of this. it's just that i agree with some people that giving hard limits to the players is somewhat a bad feature. (if you don t want to use those trams with gasoline and chemicals, simply don't, but allow people who like to do it, to do it


Now surely heqs is more focusing on "heavy industry" where in reality the trams were probably used as "low" capacity transporter....so maybe that s how you can still make them different, allow only smaller capacities than heqs. (and i believe it s already the case actually)


Now because some trams transported some stuff that other didn't, it might create complication when players will want to "upgrade" his tramways carrying "special" freight....that 's the reason why i though it might be a good idea to allow all the refits for existing wagon sprite (since the freight wagons are somewhat very standard).


Anyway, i ll be happy playing with your set keep up the good work !

PS : and i haven t mentionned the manufactured product ! manufacture are often in towns, and the famous "cargotram" from dresden actually is exactly carrying this kind of product no ? see how hard it can be to put a limit to what is a city cargo and what is not ?

[Voyager One]

Paris L'Arpajonnais has been included as a freight tram. I've even managed to find/calculate all stats and I've found appropriate boxcars for her (lets' say standard kind of boxcars for that time).

Will be done ASAP.

EDIT:

Here you go romazoon... une petite L'Arpajonnais...

Paris L'Arpajonnais.PNG (12.82 KiB) Viewed 2970 times

Unfortunately, it isn't written how many boxcars she has been hauling IRL so I've added only 4 boxcars because of the following reason: low power, only cca 40 HPs. You've mentioned that the tram was having trouble going up the hill with passengers and I've thought that since boxcars haul cca 4 tons each, that MUST be even more than a coach full with passengers so 4 boxcars roughly equal 5 passenger coaches...
And passengers can get off if the tram gets stuck, coaches cannot be unloaded in the middle of the street just to keep the tram moving, can they?

On second thought... is 4 also too much?