2CC Trams 0.9c & 2CC Cargo Trams v0.8r

[kamnet]

That one is an actual locomotive and not a tram. But, we already do have steam tram engines from Krauss, Kitson, Baldwin and Beyers Peacock.

[Voyager One]

@Sylf: I must agree with kamnet, this is not a tram. Our tracking table is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... li=1#gid=0

@Kamnet - I've been notified, checked it and really found an error in our tracking table. The Electroliner is not a tram either, it goes out. I'll see to find something as a replacement for it.

Don't get me wrong but I'm doublechecking all entries before I start drawing them. I've corrected a few errors in stats so far...

Also, I've found a number of entries with no webpage, how am I supposed to find pictures for reference?

[Voyager One]

3 more Tatra's...

Brno Tatra KT85D.PNG (14.47 KiB) Viewed 14023 times

Dresden Tatra T6A2.PNG (11.38 KiB) Viewed 14023 times

Manila Tatra RT8D5.PNG (14.18 KiB) Viewed 14023 times

[kamnet]

@Kamnet - I've been notified, checked it and really found an error in our tracking table. The Electroliner is not a tram either, it goes out. I'll see to find something as a replacement for it.

The Electroliner was right there on the edge of the interurbans transitioning from street running trams to lightrail transit. Leaving it out is fine.

Also, I've found a number of entries with no webpage, how am I supposed to find pictures for reference?

I'll go back through and double check. likely I've got a similar model or the manufacturer tracked on the "Unused" table or in my own list.

[Voyager One]

Electroliner

I think there is an Electroliner in the 2cc Train set so I think it's a good idea to remove it from here.

I'll go back through and double check. likely I've got a similar model or the manufacturer tracked on the "Unused" table or in my own list.

The problem is that I've tried to Google some things but I'm not sure which results are the correct ones. This is especially problematic with old trams with few pictures. Could you please just write the page where you've found their stats, that would be a good start at least. Thanks!

[Transportman]

I think there is an Electroliner in the 2cc Train set so I think it's a good idea to remove it from here.

If it is in there, it must be under another name, as searching the repo and spreadsheet for Electroliner gives 0 results.

[Voyager One]

Maybe it's something very similar then, I really can't remember any more. Electroliner, Silverliner, Electrostar... something...

Never mind, it's a train, not a tram.

EDIT:
Here's something interesting...

Paris Lamm & Francq Fireless Steam Engine.PNG (12.06 KiB) Viewed 13950 times

[Voyager One]

Last for today.

Cuiaba CAF Urbos 3.PNG (16.29 KiB) Viewed 13942 times

[keoz]

I'm amazed by how fast you guys are going on with this project.

[kamnet]

Maybe it's something very similar then, I really can't remember any more. Electroliner, Silverliner, Electrostar... something... Never mind, it's a train, not a tram.

Then can you still draw it and throw into 2CC Trains?

[Voyager One]

Maybe it's something very similar then, I really can't remember any more. Electroliner, Silverliner, Electrostar... something... Never mind, it's a train, not a tram.

Then can you still draw it and throw into 2CC Trains?

Possiblly. We'll still have to see if gaps will appear due to those new regional parameters.

[kamnet]

Latest Developmental Version: v5370-4, released September 14, 2014.
Master Mechanic Monsieur Foobar notes that this release build includes 21 vehicles, but they are not sorted by date.

PLEASE NOTE THAT DEVELOPMENTAL MODELS ARE NOT SUITABLE FOR GAMEPLAY AND ARE ONLY FOR PREVIEW.

[Voyager One]

Last from this batch...

Istanbul Alstom Citadis X-04.PNG (14.06 KiB) Viewed 13835 times

* goes fishing for some more tram pictures *

[Voyager One]

Two more...

Moscow KM Tramcar.PNG (11.26 KiB) Viewed 13816 times

Adelaide H Class.PNG (11.97 KiB) Viewed 13816 times

[kamnet]

Bringing this discussion over here.

Me hath a question. Would a few horse/mule drawn trains ever be added into the set? (Me No artist so I think .....)

An example:

Same answer as for the 2cc Trams - IMO=No.

- The main reason is that they would be so slow, weak, with extremely small capacity, etc., that there would be no practical use of them in OTTD.
- Second reason is that they would probably have to be placed well back in time (very very early 1800s, maybe even before) and no other set goes back so far so you would be stuck with these vehicles that would surely generate nothing but loss.
- Third reason - as Transportman pointed out - these were not really trains. These were more like trams and therefore they don't belong in this train set.
- And fourth reason, a "realism" reason - how much cargo was actually transported with horse-drawn carriages/trams/trains/whatever on distances longer than very short? These things served for taking cargo from the port onto a city's market, not much more. So, the only things that really transported some meaningfull cargo are... ships. My advice? Get "Sailing Ships" NewGRF.

I've heard many question like this before and my counter-question is: "What would be the point of these vehicles in OTTD?"

Yes these would be placed back very early in time. So far the only set to implement animal-drawn vehicles is eGRVTS, they're introduced in 1700 with 1-horse (8 MPH) and 2-horse (12 MPH) variations. Passenger tams haul 15 passengers and cargo trams haul 12 mail bags or 12 crates of goods.

I've found them to be very useful in OpenTTD pre-1900 games as they make it cheap and easy to move people and goods through cities to help rapidly build cities up. They're also quite useful for FIRS feeder services in moving smaller quantities of goods towards a central collection point. Most of my vehicles make enough profit to justify their use. Granted I need a lot of them, but they work fine. Their biggest weakness is their lack of tractive effort, they become quite slow on even the slightest gradients. Once the steam-powered trucks come into existence (1875?) I start switching to them even though they're slower than the 4-horse wagons, they make up for it on the inclines and bridges. Still, until buses and trucks get better in the 1920s, they're more than adequate.

We've got plenty of vehicles on our plate for 2CC Trams right now, but I would like to see animal-drawn trams added in a future release. Passenger trams have been built for up to 45 passengers and cargo could carry more as well. The only limit I see is the fact that the "engine" isn't going to improve. You will get 1, 2, 4 or 8 horses. More than that and it's probably ridiculous.

[Eddi]

i've always wanted horse-drawn vehicles as a separate set, for combination with any later tram or vehicle set, as most sets will not fill this niche.

[Supercheese]

i've always wanted horse-drawn vehicles as a separate set, for combination with any later tram or vehicle set, as most sets will not fill this niche.

That does sound like a particularly good idea.

[Voyager One]

they're introduced in 1700

And what else would you have in your game until 1800s? Could you make a meaningful network with these only? Would you make ANY profit at all?

Horse-drawn vehicles are OK but only as a micromanagement support to other (larger, faster) vehicles that are the backspine of any network. It would take a month of game time to deliver cargo at a small distance, what would that do to your vehicle profit?

horse-drawn vehicles as a separate set

This is a better idea, adapt for those who really want to mess around with horses. IMO, there aren't many players who would do this.


All in all, honestly, I'm not really fond of these and keen on drawing them, at least for this set. Sorry guys, that's my opinion.

[Voyager One]

St. Petersburg LM-33 'American'.PNG (12.48 KiB) Viewed 13680 times

Toronto Transit PCC A-1 Class.PNG (12.33 KiB) Viewed 13680 times

Toronto Transit PCC A-7 Class.PNG (12.38 KiB) Viewed 13680 times

[kamnet]

horse-drawn vehicles as a separate set

This is a better idea, adapt for those who really want to mess around with horses. IMO, there aren't many players who would do this. All in all, honestly, I'm not really fond of these and keen on drawing them, at least for this set. Sorry guys, that's my opinion.

There's not many players doing this because a) there's only one set that provides this and b) there's only one industry set that goes back far enough to make it worthwhile (FIRS). Offer more support and more people will take an interest. But if you're not fond of drawing them, that's quite okay. Inclusion in this set or even this round isn't important, as I said before there's plenty to keep everybody busy.