[OTTD] 2cc TrainsInNML

[Transportman]

What would be the use of a caboose? Would it add much to the game? And what should it do or not do?

Eyecandy?

I doubt this set needs eyecandy in the form of a caboose.

As I've said (and corrected a bit):
- Type1 - European version meant for Europe, Asia and Africa
- Type2 - American version meant for N.America, S.America, Asia, Oceania and Africa

So, ideally, it would work like this:
- all regions selected - show both
- some regions selected - show only those which are in the selected regions
- some regions selected but some of them overlap (have both Type1 and Type2) - show both

E.g. for the latter two scenarios:
- selected S.America, N. America and Oceania - show only Type1
- select the same but add Africa (which has both) - show both

I hope you understand what I mean.

I understand, just how do you define show? Show as livery (random or selection) or show as separate entry in the purchase list? I personally lean towards show as livery with possibly a livery selection, as the types would have the same stats, just different graphics.

I just need a list of which coaches belong to which region, and from there I can figure it out code-wise. Belonging to multiple regions is not a problem.

I'll do that for you ASAP. Give me a few minutes.

I'll be waiting for it.

[Voyager One]

I understand, just how do you define show? Show as livery (random or selection) or show as separate entry in the purchase list? I personally lean towards show as livery with possibly a livery selection, as the types would have the same stats, just different graphics.

"Show" meaning showing as available in the P-menu.

However... as far as I see it, there are two options (assuming both versions are available due to regional selection):

#1 - Show both versions in the P-menu. Upside: players see and know that there are two versions available (as some wagons have them, some don't). Downside: another way to clutter the P-menu.
#2 - Show one (random?) version in the P-menu. Upside and downside reversed from above.

Of course, if only one version is available due to regional selection - show only that version. BTW, I'll need to prepare you another set of P-menu sprites for the Type2.
---

I'll be waiting for it.

Here it is as I remember it. It possibly contains errors so please people, suggest if anything needs to be changed.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... li=1#gid=0

Transportman - PM me please your google account so I can assign you editing privileges to both this and other 2cc docs I've made.

EDIT: Of course, green means available, red means not available, yellow is maybe... no idea on those...

[Purno]

Ah yes, that's a pretty long list of coaches, and I think we could use regional parameters there. Some coaches may belong to multiple regions though.

I just need a list of which coaches belong to which region, and from there I can figure it out code-wise. Belonging to multiple regions is not a problem.

I hope VoyagerOne can give you a list?

I kinda expected us to have a caboose car

What would be the use of a caboose?

Eye-candy.

Would it add much to the game?

More than the 100th engine we added.

And what should it do or not do?

It should connect to trains looking pretty.

And that is now actually possible, as regions now mean something. Only thing to consider is what will happen when a player has selected both or none of those regions. Will both types show up randomly, or just one type?

What Voyager One said.

What would be the use of a caboose? Would it add much to the game? And what should it do or not do?

Eyecandy?

I doubt this set needs eyecandy in the form of a caboose.

So adding hundreds of engines, MUs and coaches, which all overlap each other in usefulness, is fine, but adding one or two cabooses is a problem?

[Transportman]

I understand, just how do you define show? Show as livery (random or selection) or show as separate entry in the purchase list? I personally lean towards show as livery with possibly a livery selection, as the types would have the same stats, just different graphics.

"Show" meaning showing as available in the P-menu.

However... as far as I see it, there are two options (assuming both versions are available due to regional selection):

#1 - Show both versions in the P-menu. Upside: players see and know that there are two versions available (as some wagons have them, some don't). Downside: another way to clutter the P-menu.
#2 - Show one (random?) version in the P-menu. Upside and downside reversed from above.

Of course, if only one version is available due to regional selection - show only that version. BTW, I'll need to prepare you another set of P-menu sprites for the Type2.

I'll go with option #2, and also randomize the actual livery that is purchased.

Ah yes, that's a pretty long list of coaches, and I think we could use regional parameters there. Some coaches may belong to multiple regions though.

I just need a list of which coaches belong to which region, and from there I can figure it out code-wise. Belonging to multiple regions is not a problem.

I hope VoyagerOne can give you a list?

Yes, he did.

...Caboose stuff...

Okay, okay, you win. There will be cabooses in this set. It should not do anything fancy, except looking pretty on already pretty looking trains?

[andythenorth]

Caboose does nothing. But you need them. Can't not have cabeese.

Just don't try to make it useful (like higher speeds, or cargo payment bonus or whatever). Point of cabeese is that they are pointless.

[Purno]

I doubt this set needs eyecandy in the form of a caboose.

As I've said (and corrected a bit):
- Type1 - European version meant for Europe, Asia and Africa
- Type2 - American version meant for N.America, S.America, Asia, Oceania and Africa

So, ideally, it would work like this:
- all regions selected - show both
- some regions selected - show only those which are in the selected regions
- some regions selected but some of them overlap (have both Type1 and Type2) - show both

E.g. for the latter two scenarios:
- selected S.America, N. America and Oceania - show only Type1
- select the same but add Africa (which has both) - show both

I hope you understand what I mean.

I understand, just how do you define show? Show as livery (random or selection) or show as separate entry in the purchase list? I personally lean towards show as livery with possibly a livery selection, as the types would have the same stats, just different graphics.

Don't randomize, just show them both as seperate entries, and let the player choose. (It'd be the most straightforward and clear solution, even though it'd make the vehicle list larger).
I guess it's possible to combine them with a livery selection, but then the P-menu sprites would need to show both variants. (Which could be confusing).

Okay, okay, you win. There will be cabooses in this set. It should not do anything fancy, except looking pretty on already pretty looking trains?

Cabooses make pretty trains even prettier.
Just think of it like make-up on a pretty girl. It makes her even prettier but serves no other use

[te_lanus]

...Caboose stuff...

Okay, okay, you win. There will be cabooses in this set. It should not do anything fancy, except looking pretty on already pretty looking trains?

Would add a little to the "realism" of the set, snce it was widely used on freiight trains up to 1980's.

[kamnet]

Indeed, add caboose, but don't make it meaningful or a requirement for use on certain trains or certain lengths.

[Transportman]

Don't randomize, just show them both as seperate entries, and let the player choose. (It'd be the most straightforward and clear solution, even though it'd make the vehicle list larger).
I guess it's possible to combine them with a livery selection, but then the P-menu sprites would need to show both variants. (Which could be confusing).

I think it is more confusing to have two entries with exactly the same properties but different graphics than just have one vehicle with different liveries.

[Purno]

I think it is more confusing to have two entries with exactly the same properties but different graphics than just have one vehicle with different liveries.

I actually think it's less confusing. You get what you see: a wagon which looks different but has the same stats.

[Voyager One]

So, any remarks about that coaches' list?
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Type1-Type2 discussion...

I've taken a look at those "Type2" wagons to see how many they are and how would they affect the P-menu. You can't find them in devzone's repository (yet) as I didn't want to confuse Transportman with them, they're on my computer only. So... here's the list with Type1 and Type2

1st Gen Service Car (Caboose)
2nd Gen Box Van - standard variant only*
3rd Gen Silo Wagon
4th Gen Hopper
4th Gen Silo Wagon
5th Gen Boxcar - standard variant only*
5th Gen Hopper
5th Gen Silo Wagon

(* no Type2 for armoured, reefer or livestock variant)


All in all, by showing both types in the P-menu, we would get 8 more wagons... IMO, that wouldn't clutter the already large P-menu so I agree with Purno.
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@Transportman - I'll sort out these Type2 sprites and post them in a separate issue on devzone. I'll also add their new P-menu sprite files.

Done... here.

[te_lanus]

Me hath a question.

Would a few horse/mule drawn trains ever be added into the set? (Me No artist so I think .....)

An example
[img]upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Namaqualand_Railway_mule_train.jpg/1280px-Namaqualand_Railway_mule_train.jpg[/img]

[Transportman]

Me hath a question.

Would a few horse/mule drawn trains ever be added into the set? (Me No artist so I think .....)

Can we still call those trains? I'm saying no.

[kamnet]

Although identified as a railway, carts drawn by animals are typically classified as trams. There's a strong possibility that we'll be including this in 2CC|Trams.

[Voyager One]

Same answer as for the 2cc Trams - IMO=No.

- The main reason is that they would be so slow, weak, with extremely small capacity, etc., that there would be no practical use of them in OTTD.
- Second reason is that they would probably have to be placed well back in time (very very early 1800s, maybe even before) and no other set goes back so far so you would be stuck with these vehicles that would surely generate nothing but loss.
- Third reason - as Transportman pointed out - these were not really trains. These were more like trams and therefore they don't belong in this train set.
- And fourth reason, a "realism" reason - how much cargo was actually transported with horse-drawn carriages/trams/trains/whatever on distances longer than very short? These things served for taking cargo from the port onto a city's market, not much more. So, the only things that really transported some meaningfull cargo are... ships. My advice? Get "Sailing Ships" NewGRF.

I've heard many question like this before and my counter-question is: "What would be the point of these vehicles in OTTD?"

[NekoMaster]

eGRVTS already has horse drawn trams anyways. Actually its easier and better for a horse to pull a tram on rails then pulling a cart/carrgiage through dirt and bumpy roads

[Voyager One]

eGRVTS already has horse drawn trams anyways.

I know but have you ever used them? At least, have you ever used them successfuly (making profit in a game)?

[Voyager One]

@Transportman - You still haven't applied the regional parameter to pax/mail coaches, have you?

[Transportman]

@Transportman - You still haven't applied the regional parameter to pax/mail coaches, have you?

I didn't do that yet, why do you want to know?

[Voyager One]

Ah, no. It's all OK. I was just wondering why did (wrong) coaches persist when I was switching on/off those regional parameters. Never mind, I was just testing something.