FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[cmoiromain]

Source

[Paltala]

hmmm...just noticed on the list of cargoes is 'Farm Supplies' and that has given me an idea (excuse me if previousley suggested) but why not use some of the sprites from HEQ's such as the tractors and/or trailers for Farm Supplies?
I've attached a rough and quick attempt of what my idea would look like and such

Farm Supplies.png (1.17 KiB) Viewed 3202 times

of course it can be edited if neccersary and could also have more stuff on like piles of sacks
note: The tractor sprite has been made roughly 4 pixels taller then the trailer

[FooBar]

I cannot follow your there... FIRS is an industry set, not a vehicle set...
This is the development topic of that particular industry set, not that of a vehicle set.

Nice that you draw things and such, but without further explanation why you posted that here, it's in the wrong topic

IMO vehicle set developers should decide for themselves if and how they support FIRS cargos; I don't really care about the details of that, at least not until FIRS is actually finished.

[Paltala]

I cannot follow your there... FIRS is an industry set, not a vehicle set...
This is the development topic of that particular industry set, not that of a vehicle set.

Nice that you draw things and such, but without further explanation why you posted that here, it's in the wrong topic

IMO vehicle set developers should decide for themselves if and how they support FIRS cargos; I don't really care about the details of that, at least not until FIRS is actually finished.

Foobar, you have grabbed the wrong end of the stick, that image i posted is a representative of a cargo in the FIRS set and how i think the cargo could be shown in game

The image is showing a Tractor and Trailer from the HEQS set on a train wagon which could be used to simulate the Farm Supplies cargo for the trains, of course that can then be changed for the different vehicles

[planetmaker]

I think the proposal was: use the graphics of e.g. a trailer as that for farm supplies . And litter the proper industry tiles also with something like that.

[FooBar]

Foobar, you have grabbed the wrong end of the stick

The bit that had the dog doo on it? Yeuch...

You mean representative as in the images shown in the station window for waiting cargo? Unfortunately those cannot be larger than 10x10 px and are thus rather tricky...

But then now I don't follow this bit... There's no trains nor wagons in FIRS...

...a Tractor and Trailer from the HEQS set on a train wagon which could be used to simulate the Farm Supplies cargo for the trains...

I hope you don't feel offended or something, I didn't intend my previous reply to be harsh or something. Hence the smilies

[Paltala]

Foobar, you have grabbed the wrong end of the stick

The bit that had the dog doo on it? Yeuch...

You mean representative as in the images shown in the station window for waiting cargo? Unfortunately those cannot be larger than 10x10 px and are thus rather tricky...

But then now I don't follow this bit... There's no trains nor wagons in FIRS...

...a Tractor and Trailer from the HEQS set on a train wagon which could be used to simulate the Farm Supplies cargo for the trains...

I hope you don't feel offended or something, I didn't intend my previous reply to be harsh or something. Hence the smilies

I'm not offended and i understand what you thought but its not designed to be at a station, its designed to be on a train in transport. of course another vehicle set with flatbed wagons will need to be made compatable or intergrated into another for it to work but it is just an idea of how the Farm Supplies cargo could be represented ingame during transport instead of being concealed in a box.

[FooBar]

Then I fear that I already said what I wanted to say in my first reply: this topic is about the development of FIRS, not about the development of related peripherials such as vehicle sets...

I appreciate your suggestion but I fear it will only get lost in this thread. If you want to discuss the display of FIRS cargos in vehicle sets I strongly recommend creating a seperate thread for it. That way that particular discussion doesn't get mixed with the regular development discussion in here

[andythenorth]

I'm not offended and i understand what you thought but its not designed to be at a station, its designed to be on a train in transport. of course another vehicle set with flatbed wagons will need to be made compatable or intergrated into another for it to work but it is just an idea of how the Farm Supplies cargo could be represented ingame during transport instead of being concealed in a box.

There was some discussion earlier in the thread about standardising sprites for FIRS cargos for use in vehicle sets. So this is relevant

The HEQS set will at some point get some low-loader trucks that will transport Farm Supplies and Engineering Supplies appropriately, representing them as tractors, bulldozers etc.

I was thinking of doing some generic rail wagons for FIRS cargos, to be used with other sets (the OpenTTD engine pool would need to be enabled in game). However, I can't / won't because:
- I'm working on too many sets, I'll spread my time too thin and never get anything done.
- There are train sets with what I consider a nasty habit of disabling themselves if they detect another train set. This was probably a good idea before the engine pool, but in the context of engine pool the behaviour is unhelpful. However it's a heated subject with some grf authors. There's no point in doing a FIRS-supporting wagon grf that can't be used with some of the major train sets.

meh

[Ammler]

- There are train sets with what I consider a nasty habit of disabling themselves if they detect another train set. This was probably a good idea before the engine pool, but in the context of engine pool the behaviour is unhelpful. However it's a heated subject with some grf authors. There's no point in doing a FIRS-supporting wagon grf that can't be used with some of the major train sets.

I'm not aware of one released vehicle set using that ugly feature.

Greets
Ammler

[NekoMaster]

- There are train sets with what I consider a nasty habit of disabling themselves if they detect another train set. This was probably a good idea before the engine pool, but in the context of engine pool the behaviour is unhelpful. However it's a heated subject with some grf authors. There's no point in doing a FIRS-supporting wagon grf that can't be used with some of the major train sets.

I'm not aware of one released vehicle set using that ugly feature.

Greets
Ammler

Same, I use meny sets with the engine pool on and nothing happens, unless I combine sets I know that makes some others screw up, the CSD or Spain Set usually always screw up Long Road Vechicals v4

[andythenorth]

I'm not aware of one released vehicle set using that ugly feature.

I'm going to check later, but I think NARS, NARS 2, UKRS and Canset 3 all do it. I'm fairly certain it's done for the very good reason of preventing conflicts*. Previous to the engine pool, loading two train sets could produce horrible results.

* Canset does it because OzTrans doesn't want to support the engine pool, which was a whole other debate, not to be discussed in a FIRS thread

Mind you, I could be wrong about all of this.

[planetmaker]

I'm not aware of one released vehicle set using that ugly feature.

I'm going to check later, but I think NARS, NARS 2, UKRS and Canset 3 all do it. I'm fairly certain it's done for the very good reason of preventing conflicts*. Previous to the engine pool, loading two train sets could produce horrible results.

Neither set does. Either they're pre-engine pool or they don't care too much despite knowledge of it.

All that talk about disabling in the presence of another set is up to this date related to yet not released but talked about for year(s) sets. Sadly this crying obviously leads to a self-sensorship...

EDIT: here the proof

All major trainsets (did I forget anyone?) in one game. Totally discourage to do, though.

Unnamed, 21-05-1945.png (14.17 KiB) Viewed 2760 times

The only set really dealing with the engine pool is NARS2. It requires setting the 5th (or 4th, if starting to count with 0 as Pikka does) grf parameter, if you want it to work in the presence of other train newgrf.

[maquinista]

- There are train sets with what I consider a nasty habit of disabling themselves if they detect another train set. This was probably a good idea before the engine pool, but in the context of engine pool the behaviour is unhelpful. However it's a heated subject with some grf authors. There's no point in doing a FIRS-supporting wagon grf that can't be used with some of the major train sets.

I'm not aware of one released vehicle set using that ugly feature.

Greets
Ammler

Same, I use meny sets with the engine pool on and nothing happens, unless I combine sets I know that makes some others screw up, the CSD or Spain Set usually always screw up Long Road Vechicals v4

It would be interesting If You publish these bugs in the Spain set thread because I didn't know it.

[PikkaBird]

It requires setting the 5th (or 4th, if starting to count with 0 as Pikka does) grf parameter, if you want it to work in the presence of other train newgrf.

Actually, if you want it to work in the presence of a train grf that it knows it's incompatible with.

[NekoMaster]

It would be interesting If You publish these bugs in the Spain set thread because I didn't know it.

Well it causes some set to have funky graphics, also some of the trains have very low TE, some far less then 100 kN

[andythenorth]

All that talk about disabling in the presence of another set is up to this date related to yet not released but talked about for year(s) sets.

Yay. I'm wrong. Which in this case is the better outcome

[OzTrans]

... There's no point in doing a FIRS-supporting wagon grf that can't be used with some of the major train sets. ...

You are quite right there ... CanRail engines won't be able to pull any 'foreign' freight cars. ...

You (or anybody else) are welcome to supply cargo loads for some of the open Canadian freight wagons. Flatbed and gondola cars are available for the transport of all sorts of machinery items.

Below is an overview what freight car will carry what FIRS cargo type; as well as, how FIRS loads will look with the open style freight wagons. Any comments welcome.

Sugar cane is the only cargo type, we haven't really got a suitable freight car. Currently, it is transported in box cars until 1959. But, if you could supply some sugar cane bins (2 for a 7/8th car or even 3 for a full length one), we could fit them on a flat car.

[Paltala]

Flatbed and gondola cars are available for the transport of all sorts of machinery items.

Hmmm...this way we could intergrate my idea with the farm supplies especially with the Flatbed's and the Gondola's could be used to carry other farm supplies such as sacks (pre 1980?) and/or tools and the such

[andythenorth]

Sugar cane is the only cargo type, we haven't really got a suitable freight car. Currently, it is transported in box cars until 1959.

Simples: don't allow CanRail in Tropic. Sugar Cane is tropic only for FIRS...no Tropics in Canada, except allowing for climate change

The cane bins thing is not a bad idea, I've got to draw some cane trucks for HEQS, I don't think the sprites will be much use for rail vehicles though.