Farmland Area Car Set mods

legs4poets · Post by **legs4poets** » 20 May 2007 03:22

This whole copyright issue is such a muddy mess. Joe makes sd45,declares it PD Chris makes sd45 claims copyright shape is almost extactly the same. ace files(texures) differ then along comes Jones and makes another sd45. All claim rights therefor by what I've understood in order to repaint and distribute an sd45 in loco I need permission from both who claim copyright even if I use Joe's or by some chance I went and used TSM and Brian P's naltutor.zip file and created my own. Does this mean whatever I make with TSM would be just blowing smoke in the wind? I don't want to anger anyone but this whole copyright issue seems a bit petty. I've searched at various MSTS sites using public domain, the download a few samples read the docs see as stated " All of the files (except the logo) are provided in the public domain. Spindle, fold, bend, and mutilate as you desire, and then call it your own!!! Logo is copyright to me--xxxxxxx--as freeware. So use your own logo, or none if you wish, and model on!!!" Then have a few names of to work with I search my name and read, etc.
It seems to me that it's not worth the effort to send all the emails to others that created the same loco to get permission to use a public domain version, With that said where would I have the time to test,test,test and retest just to find some clown out there saying I can't use Auran's f7 or Dave's gp7/9 or my own sd45. rolling stock modding for distribution by me will not be seen in the forseeable future. I am working on a few building to change the look of the industries I created.

Plastikman · Post by **Plastikman** » 20 May 2007 20:39

Unfortunatlly a copywrited item is just that, copywrited, using it without permission is illegal... period. If you have the ok to use aurans F7's and you use 3-trains F7 instead and 3d-trains did not say it is ok. thats illegal...

Most freeware Trains still say, not to be used without yadda yadda... and even then, only on one site.

Thats like saying you can take a CD of music, Rip it to MP3. Then because You are ripping to MP3 You now own the rights to it... or at least saying in a grey kind of way, I can now distribute it. the question is not if it is an F7. the question is who took 100+ hours to build it as an msts file and then copywrited their work. i am sure 50+ people made F7's at this point. I am sure most of them will say y"es, go right ahead and use it". But, not asking is taboo...

Thats why i suggested using the default stock to get Your feet wet and learn. We have learned that Microsoft/Kujo does not really care.
then, work up a client (modeler) database from there.

MjD · Post by **MjD** » 20 May 2007 23:32

legs4poets wrote:This whole copyright issue is such a muddy mess. Joe makes sd45,declares it PD Chris makes sd45 claims copyright shape is almost extactly the same. ace files(texures) differ then along comes Jones and makes another sd45. All claim rights therefor by what I've understood in order to repaint and distribute an sd45 in loco I need permission from both who claim copyright even if I use Joe's or by some chance I went and used TSM and Brian P's naltutor.zip file and created my own.<snip>

I am tired and semi-drunk so I can't really be bothered reading such a long piece of text.

You would only need permission from the creator of the model you are using. SO in your case if you used Joe's model, you would need Joe's permission only. And vice versa for Chris's. If you used Joe's you wouldn't need permission from Chris as your not using his model.

Hope this helps clarify it a bit more.

MD

legs4poets · Post by **legs4poets** » 21 May 2007 00:20

Yep Major DUck it has been clarified. In the case of this partial created item I need only ask myself for permission to use it. Correct??? Since I am the author of it. Many of the shapes I use are ones I've made by looking at others work and working my own mod. BTW this loco is going to be a type not even made yet available in 2015. Or perhaps a custom made one for light branch line a sort of Special Duty Lightwieght A-1-A config.

Plastikman · Post by **Plastikman** » 21 May 2007 01:26

actually someone (i think justin cornell) made a a future EMD, like a like the emd 136 or somthing and released it for lomo. it was from like 2020. we need stuff like that.

legs4poets · Post by **legs4poets** » 21 May 2007 02:23

here she be a couple hrs and error corrections later.... still real rough... A lot easier to create from blueprints or similiar but a challenge. Need to add all the details

legs4poets · Post by **legs4poets** » 21 May 2007 02:27

Sorry the polly count will be low by MSTS standards until nearly finished. Using a laptop with limited graphix card.

MjD · Post by **MjD** » 21 May 2007 13:08

legs4poets wrote:Yep Major DUck it has been clarified. In the case of this partial created item I need only ask myself for permission to use it. Correct??? Since I am the author of it. Many of the shapes I use are ones I've made by looking at others work and working my own mod. BTW this loco is going to be a type not even made yet available in 2015. Or perhaps a custom made one for light branch line a sort of Special Duty Lightwieght A-1-A config.

As you are the author/creator of the model all you need to do is ask yourself for permission as it's all your own work.

You said that you used others work for reference, as long as you haven't taken the actual models, and only viewed them for pointers then you are fine.

It's when you actually use someone else's work you will need permission. Also remember the model doesn't need to have as many polys in terms of MSTS models to make it looks good in loco.

MD

legs4poets · Post by **legs4poets** » 21 May 2007 13:48

The whole confusion issue was over me being able to use my version(s) of existing locomotives. 90% of the MSTS versions are sooooo poly intensive that my my poor laptop couldn't handle them. I created what I couldn't find as prediscribed public domain (fold mutilate as desired...). Yes some would fall under the reverse engineered grouping as I would take a part I made and scale it to another to get the look needed. Adjust the look avoiding those pesky small details that my machine choked on.
Yes those are not need in loco as they don't show up example is above no need for handrails (never seen in loco). The mods are a bit transparent at MSTS level but not at loco.
Anyways I found a bug in the above mod.. too long I used the frame I made for SD70 and should have used the GP version with the 3 axle bogies. Oh well back to the drawing board.

uktrackbuilder_loco · Post by **uktrackbuilder_loco** » 21 May 2007 19:04

As regards the model I would if possible just shorten the hood and the chassis to keep it a Bo-Bo configuration as a lot of american railroads prefer that to the Co-Co as they are better heavy haulers ( the tradeoff is of course that the shorter bogie's don't handle as well at speed and thus if you want to run a low speed but high haulage service you stick to the Bo-Bo's) They also don't leave 12 wheelburns in the rail when some idiot opens up the power handle too far on a restart. ( Circa Newport Station in 1992 )
As regards the business about intellectual copyrights and property rights as far as I am aware even if you do declare that the material you produce is for "freeware" or available to share you still have every right to be credited as its original composer when someone uses it to produce a fresh item. The basic premise is that Original Composition and not mutation or reverse engineering or disassembly of existing code is the key to the rights of declaring yourself the owner of the property rights, the only area of conflict within that would be the use of say an outside trademark used under license as is the case with the EVO based on the Union Pacific locomotive. There the owner of the trademark could insist that the model is not available for freeware etc as it would allow the adultaration of their intellectual property rights .
I think the basic answer is that if you are unsure about who exactly has the rights to the model you are viewing in MSTS as a potential conversion to LoMo then its best just to drop it and accept that if you don't know who is the ultimate owner then converting it could lead to a lot of very unfriendly emails being exchanged

legs4poets · Post by **legs4poets** » 21 May 2007 19:47

Ok I understand that to some degree.... My grey area is that the models aka MSTS shape file is my own creation. No different from say the person that modeled the 1st add-on to msts loco had to get his info from somewhere... I don't see them giving credit to 2nd diesel spotters guide (which I have used a little). The entire reason I created (reverse forward or sideways engineered) anything was and still is the low end computer I have can't handle poly counts those rich guys use.
To a small degree I use their model for some measurements but I don't see the need to give them credit for a measurement I could have gotten from the spotters guide. I guess the best thing for me to do would be to compile a list of every MSTS vehicle and create a list of them all. That would make them happy but would take too much of my time.
For loco I will ONLY distrubute purely my own creations that could have, should have, would have or possible will be built based own my limited knowledge.
As for the model I'm working on I like your idea of a B-B arrangement relatively mid range HP and approx 60 MPH limit. I think I'll go with 2 versions a B-B and a C-C with each having a distinct advantage. The C-C would be more powerful but slower. Might even make a slug version just to keep modding skills up.
Thanks for the input....

Hack · Post by **Hack** » 22 May 2007 00:01

My apologies for hijacking the thread...

FWIW, if you wish to use any of our models, all that's needed is a simple email stating your intentions. The answer will be a yes for all our freeware models and repaints, but could go either way for our commercial stuff (case by case basis, I suspect). I had wanted to do several Lomo converts myself, but got busy with other things. I believe I have an F and a caboose still on the server, so if anyone's interested in giving them a try, perhaps even improving them, by all means have at it:

Download F7A
Download Caboose

The above files were done shortly after Lomo's release, so I don't recall how well they work.

Also, if someone is willing to help me get back up to speed on converting for Lomo (or creating new items, such as the buildings mentioned above), drop me a PM or email me.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled post, already in progress...

busman · Post by **busman** » 22 May 2007 00:13

hi hack.

send me a pm with a list of the S-Files that are ok to use

the busman

Plastikman · Post by **Plastikman** » 22 May 2007 00:14

Hack wrote:My apologies for hijacking the thread...

FWIW, if you wish to use any of our models, all that's needed is a simple email stating your intentions. The answer will be a yes for all our freeware models and repaints, but could go either way for our commercial stuff (case by case basis, I suspect). I had wanted to do several Lomo converts myself, but got busy with other things. I believe I have an F and a caboose still on the server, so if anyone's interested in giving them a try, perhaps even improving them, by all means have at it:

Download F7A
Download Caboose

The above files were done shortly after Lomo's release, so I don't recall how well they work.

Also, if someone is willing to help me get back up to speed on converting for Lomo (or creating new items, such as the buildings mentioned above), drop me a PM or email me.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled post, already in progress...

Hey Marc, Good to see You again, a bunch of your F7's were released in my 1.6 pack lastnight. I hope they live up to the hype. also as soon as i can find the surfliner you sent me I will be re-releasing it again.

sorry for the hijack.

Leg's yeah low polly is fine for lomo. did you see the one pack that looks like biro toys as a model but good in lomo? you almost only need a block with details painted onto it.

Hack · Post by **Hack** » 22 May 2007 00:18

busman wrote:send me a pm with a list of the S-Files that are ok to use

Easier if you send me a PM with a list of the shapes you wish to use.

Hack · Post by **Hack** » 22 May 2007 00:20

Plastikman wrote:also as soon as i can find the surfliner you sent me I will be re-releasing it again.

Looked for the files just now, but can't find. I believe I have them on CD, however, so if you can't locate the files I sent, let me know.

legs4poets · Post by **legs4poets** » 22 May 2007 01:28

Ok How much will it cost to return the hyjacked thread??? Just kidding

Here's the mod before going to MSTS2Loco Both versions B-B and C-C

Granted they are not of a real loco so I've given them the GP11 and SD11 designation. Not sure what HP and speed either will have so any sugestions ????

legs4poets · Post by **legs4poets** » 22 May 2007 01:32

I'll finish up the ace files before converting.. I had thought about 2050 HP at 65 mph for the GP and 2300 HP at 55 mph for the SD. Both are of the "snoot" or alligator type Just to set the looks apart from gp 7/9 and sd7/9 which they are rebuilds of. Or would.

busman · Post by **busman** » 22 May 2007 02:07

Easier if you send me a PM with a list of the shapes you wish to use

ok will send you a pm in the next day or so

thanks

uktrackbuilder_loco · Post by **uktrackbuilder_loco** » 22 May 2007 11:35

legs4poets wrote:Ok How much will it cost to return the hyjacked thread??? Just kidding

Here's the mod before going to MSTS2Loco Both versions B-B and C-C

Granted they are not of a real loco so I've given them the GP11 and SD11 designation. Not sure what HP and speed either will have so any sugestions ????

Pitch about say the 3500-4000 hp mark and around 65-70 mph that seems to be about the current defination of a heavy duty locomotive for most railroads, the real debate would be as regards engine size as with the new reg's for diesel emissions you'd have to work out how many cylinders / generator amperage you'd need to achieve that and if you can predict that I suspect EMD or GE Transportation would be calling you

Transport Tycoon Forums

Farmland Area Car Set mods

Who is online