Dutch Trainset v2.0

[Purno]

Nice screenshot

[djidee]

Two screens from my side...

Playing a lot with Dutch Trainset (perhaps because i'm dutch)... Still have to do the stations and the signals i see

[Hyronymus]

Nice screenshots and I see a lot of room for improvement for the Dutch Trainset.

[Mahoo76]

Nice screenshots and I see a lot of room for improvement for the Dutch Trainset.

I can't imagine what you'd like to improve. The set is great as it is. But please surprise me.

I really like the 'clean' view. In contrast, the 2cc set has every wagon shaded. This gives a rather toy-ish look. On the other hand, the 2cc set has a lot of trains, you never can have too much trains.

Well, as a famous Dutch ex-footballer says: "every advantage has a disadvantage"

[FooBar]

I can't imagine what you'd like to improve.

Vehicles not magically changing colours when driving around, for one. Different liveries are great, but please let the painters do their job inside a depot rather than hanging from the side of a train Not that you can see that from the screenshots...

[Purno]

Nice screenshots and I see a lot of room for improvement for the Dutch Trainset.

When are you gonna share your secret future plans for the set? You've been stating several times you see improvements, you have plans for a version 2. But you keep hiding what kinda plans those are

I can't imagine what you'd like to improve.

Vehicles not magically changing colours when driving around, for one. Different liveries are great, but please let the painters do their job inside a depot rather than hanging from the side of a train Not that you can see that from the screenshots...

Well, the Dutch Trainset was coded by someone with limited knownledge of coding (me) because no-one better was available at that time
Once we get a more skilled coder, we can do all those fancy stuff we had to skip for version 1

[Mahoo76]

Well, the Dutch Trainset was coded by someone with limited knownledge of coding (me) because no-one better was available at that time

You're being too modest.

I can't imagine what you'd like to improve.

Well, after a few good nights sleep, I did come up with some improvements.

• -The Mat '54 has it's last wagon reversed, but only in the diagonal striped livery and at max length.
  -Copy&paste the 1600 series into a 1700/1800 series, and make the 1700/1800 series pax only.
  -Make the 1600 series freight only.
  -I really like the rear end of the NMBS train. Add this last wagon to the other 'modern' electric locomotives (1200,1300,1500,1700/1800)
  -Transform this last wagon into some sort of commandpost (I believe NARS had something like it). Make the locs pull/push units.
  -Do the same with the double-decker.
  -Make the different liveries available for buying in the depot. (I really like my 1200's in grey/yellow)
  -Add the new Sprinters

Dutch trainset improvements.png (12.34 KiB) Viewed 7214 times

These are my first ideas. If I think of more, I´ll post them. Please feel free to burn ´m down

[FooBar]

-The Mat '54 has it's last wagon reversed, but only in the diagonal striped livery and at max length.

That's obviously a bug. If it's up to me, in the next version you will buy the multiple units as one multiple unit, rather than having to add wagons yourself. That should also allow to connect a Plan V to a VIRM without problems (yes, I've seen 'em do that).

Add this last wagon to the other 'modern' electric locomotives (1200,1300,1500,1700/1800)

Cab controls (=stuurstand) were never used with the 1200, 1300 and 1500. Only with 1600/1700/1800. Now the 1700/1800 aren't officially in the set, but the 1600 is and that comes with a cab control if you add express passenger coaches to it.

-Do the same with the double-decker.

Already exists.

-Make the different liveries available for buying in the depot.

If it's up to me, that will not happen. Vehicles will change livery as they did in real life, that is the beauty of a train set based on real vehicles.

-Add the new Sprinters

Already there. It's called the "LighTTrain".

I'm not sure about the 1600/1700/1800 issue. My instinct tells me there should be the 1600/1800 (which is the same engine) and the 1700. But as they are for game purposes essentially the same thing, one train that represents both is probably enough. I would like to get rid of it's refit capabilities and rather have it's livery depend on whether the first attached wagon is a passenger wagon or not.

[Mahoo76]

Cab controls (=stuurstand) were never used with the 1200, 1300 and 1500. Only with 1600/1700/1800. Now the 1700/1800 aren't officially in the set, but the 1600 is and that comes with a cab control if you add express passenger coaches to it.

What I meant is: Make the cab control work in the game. I would be nice to see those 1600's push a train/double-decker. I'm quite positive NARS had it at some time. I can't find it in one of the more recent versions though.

My 1600's don't show cab controls with the express coaches attached... Are they too long/short?

Nederlandse Spoorwegen NV, 15-01-2002#1.png

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[ZxBiohazardZx]

default dutch lenghts are usually quite short so id say the train is too long, is it even lenght (aka did you try odd vs even)

are they default carriages or are they MU-PAX type wagons ( i dunno dont have the set here)

[FooBar]

My 1600's don't show cab controls with the express coaches attached... Are they too long/short?

You might be in the wrong year. In real life these cab control units are used from 2004. I suspect the set implements similar behaviour, as I can build them in 2040.

[Purno]

I'm not sure about the 1600/1700/1800 issue. My instinct tells me there should be the 1600/1800 (which is the same engine) and the 1700. But as they are for game purposes essentially the same thing, one train that represents both is probably enough. I would like to get rid of it's refit capabilities and rather have it's livery depend on whether the first attached wagon is a passenger wagon or not.

Not sure how many differences there are between the 1600, 1700 and 1800 TBH. But I think these differences are too small to give them seperate vehicle IDs.

The refit capabilities between passengers and freight was only as a workaround for my own limited coding skills; I didn't know how to do a livery change based upon wagons attached, but I did know how to change the livery based upon cargo carrying.

What I meant is: Make the cab control work in the game. I would be nice to see those 1600's push a train/double-decker. I'm quite positive NARS had it at some time. I can't find it in one of the more recent versions though.

Yep, that'd be nice, and it'd be something to add for all MUs too

My 1600's don't show cab controls with the express coaches attached... Are they too long/short?

You might be in the wrong year. In real life these cab control units are used from 2004. I suspect the set implements similar behaviour, as I can build them in 2040.

I'm 99% sure I coded it this way indeed, so try skipping to a later year to check out if they work

default dutch lenghts are usually quite short so id say the train is too long, is it even lenght (aka did you try odd vs even)

are they default carriages or are they MU-PAX type wagons ( i dunno dont have the set here)

If I remember correctly, we coded consists for all trains up to 16 wagons, unless they had a shorter max length in real life, which is mostly the case with MUs. I guess it depends on the complexity of the train. For example, a DE-3 "Diesel Drie" consists is rather simple, since it always consists of blocks of three wagons. However, the ICM "Koploper" is a whole different story

Odd vs Even shouldn't matter at these engine + passenger coaches trains. Pretty sure the intercity coaches coupled behind a 1600 work identical to the ones coupled behind a NMBS 11.8

[alluke]

Why not code the solid MUs as 2/more part vehicle?

[Purno]

Why not code the solid MUs as 2/more part vehicle?

Isn't that exactly what FooBar is suggesting?

If it's up to me, in the next version you will buy the multiple units as one multiple unit, rather than having to add wagons yourself. That should also allow to connect a Plan V to a VIRM without problems (yes, I've seen 'em do that).

[Purno]

Nice, so what's the plans for v2?

[ZxBiohazardZx]

I'm not sure about the 1600/1700/1800 issue. My instinct tells me there should be the 1600/1800 (which is the same engine) and the 1700. But as they are for game purposes essentially the same thing, one train that represents both is probably enough. I would like to get rid of it's refit capabilities and rather have it's livery depend on whether the first attached wagon is a passenger wagon or not.

Not sure how many differences there are between the 1600, 1700 and 1800 TBH. But I think these differences are too small to give them seperate vehicle IDs.

The refit capabilities between passengers and freight was only as a workaround for my own limited coding skills; I didn't know how to do a livery change based upon wagons attached, but I did know how to change the livery based upon cargo carrying.

What I meant is: Make the cab control work in the game. I would be nice to see those 1600's push a train/double-decker. I'm quite positive NARS had it at some time. I can't find it in one of the more recent versions though.

Yep, that'd be nice, and it'd be something to add for all MUs too

My 1600's don't show cab controls with the express coaches attached... Are they too long/short?

You might be in the wrong year. In real life these cab control units are used from 2004. I suspect the set implements similar behaviour, as I can build them in 2040.

I'm 99% sure I coded it this way indeed, so try skipping to a later year to check out if they work

default dutch lenghts are usually quite short so id say the train is too long, is it even lenght (aka did you try odd vs even)

are they default carriages or are they MU-PAX type wagons ( i dunno dont have the set here)

If I remember correctly, we coded consists for all trains up to 16 wagons, unless they had a shorter max length in real life, which is mostly the case with MUs. I guess it depends on the complexity of the train. For example, a DE-3 "Diesel Drie" consists is rather simple, since it always consists of blocks of three wagons. However, the ICM "Koploper" is a whole different story

Odd vs Even shouldn't matter at these engine + passenger coaches trains. Pretty sure the intercity coaches coupled behind a 1600 work identical to the ones coupled behind a NMBS 11.8

hehe yeah your right,

also did the 1600's pull passengers? i thought only the 1700's did and that 1600/1800 was more aimed on freight, that being a personal sidenode...

[FooBar]

also did the 1600's pull passengers? i thought only the 1700's did and that 1600/1800 was more aimed on freight, that being a personal sidenode...

First there was only 1600s, which pulled both passengers and freight. Some 10 years later the 1700s came along which had some technical modifications as well as automatic couplings. Then the NS was spilt NS Reizigers for passenger transport and NS Cargo for freight transport and the 1600 stock was devided over the two companies. The 1600s for NS Reizigers were renumbered as 1800s. The 1600s for NS Cargo retained their original number.

[Hyronymus]

Nice, so what's the plans for v2?

- early available steam engines
- discuss cost factors with other set developers
- change the alignment of vehicles to match other sets (i.e. UKRS)
- completely recode in NML
- make sure every contributor contributes under GPL v2 or a similar license
- built-in support for ECS, FIRS and possibly other cargo sets

[FooBar]

- discuss cost factors with other set developers

Balancing against the default vehicles would be best I think. But then not all train sets seem to do that.

[planetmaker]

- discuss cost factors with other set developers

Along the lines of FooBar's argument:

Why balance against default vehicles?

- People use more than one set
- Every set author has his or her own idea of what "the best" cost structure should be like
- Every player has also his or her own idea of what price levels should be like
- Base cost newgrfs allow to set *globally* the cost levels of vehicle types, but NOT re-balance sets against eachother. This is especially visible in the road vehicles domain, but increasingly also with trainsets.

Personally I like to draw the conclusion that 'best practise' is
- without any parameters balance against default vehicles, both purchase and running costs
- with parameter allow to set different purchase and running cost levels

- maybe add a parameter for alternate cost schemes, if you want to do it really different.
- if you want to do it fancy, add some auto-detection of preferred other NewGRFs and tie that to an additional parameter 'auto-config costs'