FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[NekoMaster]

Wow, so what happens when you try playing with NARS 2.0 at the moment? and how did you manage to break compatibility?

[andythenorth]

Wow, so what happens when you try playing with NARS 2.0 at the moment?

FIRS will disable itself if it detects NARS 2. That isn't intended and needs fixing.

We changed some internal parameters to accommodate exciting new features, and we can't figure out why the NARS check breaks. FooBar coded it and he is out of touch. We'll figure it out though.

EDIT: setting the first NARS 2 parameter to 2 (disable regearing) appears to solve this problem.

The problem also appears to be intermittent. I can reproduce it, planetmaker can't. Anyone else tried it?

[NekoMaster]

No errors for me

[DanMacK]

Hey Andy, why not talk to Lifeblood about his cannery for the fish processing? I already have permission to use it for NAIS, and I'm sure there's no problem with using it for FIRS.

[Comm Cody]

Wow, so what happens when you try playing with NARS 2.0 at the moment?

FIRS will disable itself if it detects NARS 2. That isn't intended and needs fixing.

We changed some internal parameters to accommodate exciting new features, and we can't figure out why the NARS check breaks. FooBar coded it and he is out of touch. We'll figure it out though.

EDIT: setting the first NARS 2 parameter to 2 (disable regearing) appears to solve this problem.

The problem also appears to be intermittent. I can reproduce it, planetmaker can't. Anyone else tried it?

Could it be that FIRS see nars as an industry set? (with the regearing cargo?) It's a fun industry set IMO. Modified Ivan's Rhine Mosel map to work with this. But two things about forests. One, Allow them to be built on slopes. Two, Make different layouts for it.

[byko]

hi

I've just translated FIRS into Polsh in 75minutes. It looks ok.
Please include it in next nightly

[petert]

Please include it in next nightly

Good news, http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fir ... isions/421

[andythenorth]

Please include it in next nightly

Good news, http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fir ... isions/421

I've committed the Polish language file to the repo. I'm not sure if all the language hooks are in place in FIRS yet though, FooBar coded that part. Probably won't be in the next nightly.

EDIT: I found the hook and enabled Polish. It should show up in the next nightly build. I don't fully understand the translation machinery, so I'm not sure what might go wrong - there might be a reason FooBar didn't enable the existing translations (Dutch, German)!

[FooBar]

Translations weren't enabled last time I checked (quite a while ago!). I came up with a new translation framework a while ago, but because that didn't work properly, it wasn't implemented at that time. Most likely one time I find a solution round that. At that point, structure of language files will change and current files need to be converted somehow...

Anyways, happy new year everybody! Thought I might drop in and drop a line

[andythenorth]

Anyways, happy new year everybody! Thought I might drop in and drop a line

Happy new year Foobar
--

All: I'm thinking of tweaking FIRS cargos and industries. I've played a couple of games through with FIRS, and it's fun, but some changes could be worthwhile.

Who's played a FIRS game? If you have, why not PM me...I have some questions you could help with...your answers could help improve the set

[andythenorth]

I'm planning some changes to FIRS.

Reasons:
- results of play testing
- anecdotal feedback that FIRS is overwhelming
- discussion with other people

Planned Changes:
- remove Waste cargo, most of waste chain industries (may be available as some kind of add-on)
- remove Parts cargo
- remove Fish cargo, Fish Processor (may be available as some kind of add-on). Fishing Harbour supplies Food directly.
- change Packaging cargo to Manufacturing Supplies (also change which industries supply this cargo)
- remove Factory
- remove Farm Supply Depot
- remove Fruit Plantation in Temperate climate
- add Fuel Depot (supplies Engineering Supplies and Farm Supplies)

Net reduction: seven industries, three cargos.

Thoughts?

[George]

I'm planning some changes to FIRS.
Planned Changes:
- remove Waste cargo, most of waste chain industries (may be available as some kind of add-on)

We (me and Michael Blunck) said this since the beginning of new industries.

- remove Fish cargo, Fish Processor (may be available as some kind of add-on). Fishing Harbour supplies Food directly.

So, oil platform is the only industry on water?

- remove Fruit Plantation in Temperate climate

What's the profit?

- add Fuel Depot (supplies Engineering Supplies and Farm Supplies)

Imho, redundant industry

Net reduction: seven industries, three cargos.
Thoughts?

Good idea. The net looked too complicated.
In ECS vectors you can switch off vectors and make the net smaller, in FIRS you can't. So, you would achieve the same effect by reducing the main part and allowing to switch on addons

P.S. I like to see ECS ideas being accepting in one or the other form. It makes me think that many decisions were done good. And good luck to FIRS

[NekoMaster]

I'm planning some changes to FIRS.

Reasons:
- results of play testing
- anecdotal feedback that FIRS is overwhelming
- discussion with other people

Planned Changes:
- remove Waste cargo, most of waste chain industries (may be available as some kind of add-on)
- remove Parts cargo
- remove Fish cargo, Fish Processor (may be available as some kind of add-on). Fishing Harbour supplies Food directly.
- change Packaging cargo to Manufacturing Supplies (also change which industries supply this cargo)
- remove Factory
- remove Farm Supply Depot
- remove Fruit Plantation in Temperate climate
- add Fuel Depot (supplies Engineering Supplies and Farm Supplies)

Net reduction: seven industries, three cargos.

Thoughts?

Why remove the factory and Parts Cargo? Also, why not just change the fruit plantation in temperate climate to a orcherd (like apples or oranges)

[andythenorth]

Why remove the factory and Parts Cargo? Also, why not just change the fruit plantation in temperate climate to a orcherd (like apples or oranges)

From what I can figure out, players generally think FIRS is too complicated, so they won't use it. Or maybe it's because there's no full release yet.

Anyway, people who've tried it seem to think it's just too much, so I'm looking for ways to make it simpler.

So, oil platform is the only industry on water?

Also Dredging Site, and the Wind Farm (slightly pointless, but I like the sprites, it's pretty cool). Fishing Harbour transcends the coastline.

- remove Fruit Plantation in Temperate climate

What's the profit?

One less industry 'spamming' the map?

[Kogut]

I'm planning some changes to FIRS.
Net reduction: seven industries, three cargos.
Thoughts?

Is it possible to separate (like ECS) FIRS in parts?
For example:
- basic FIRS
- waste FIRS
- extended food FIRS
It is better than removing nice industries.

I like FIRS because it is complicated and sometimes overhelming (and have much better graphics than ECS). I like many industries and many cargos. I would like to have MORE industries and corgos (cargos are on maximum I heard).

[andythenorth]

Is it possible to separate (like ECS) FIRS in parts?

Yes. We've designed FIRS to allow FIRS Add-ons.

There are a small number of free industry slots (about 7 right now) and free cargo slots (2 or 3 depending if you use NARS 2). The IDs of these will be documented so other authors can make add-ons.

Which brings me to my next question. If I made the waste and fish cargos / industries available, should they be in separate add-on grfs, or the main FIRS grf with a parameter to enable them?

[DJ Nekkid]

why not make a parameter to dis/enable the "unwanted" parts? That is, imho, a better approach then haveing a bunch of addons ... The newgrf-list is long enough as it is

[Kogut]

Parameter(s) is much better (adding full ECS to grf list and moving train set through it - it is terrible)

[Zephyris]

I say parameters; unless all separate "module" grfs are fully stand alone it gets confusing for the user.

[planetmaker]

I say parameters; unless all separate "module" grfs are fully stand alone it gets confusing for the user.

I do agree.

I still like the idea to use a parameter to possibly even limit FIRS more, similar to ECS vector branches. But as discussed on IRC that might be work for later