Dutch Tram Set Release Candidate 1 released 2008/08/12

[Ameecher]

If you are talking about the | views then that is correct but I would be tempted not go narrow than 6 pixels, I recommend doing 6 px and 8px, the width doesn't matter all that much but the detailing that makes the tram recognisable for what it is, is important in my opinion.

[Rendall]

[edit] post of ameecher not seen because there is a 3th page added. I think you are right. I was planning to draw the newer trams (1925 - 1980) in the 6 pix range and from 1980 till ..... future tram ( special effect in my mind ) in the 7 pix range. Than it is realistic I think

Ameecher wrote:
some reason you have drawn a _ view and a | view on a line of their own, what is the purpose of these sprites?

Maybe needed when you purchase a vehicle in a depot? And when I start drawing I first draw these for my own.. lets say... feeling in the further drawing? You have the real hight, length and wideness in a glance. But it is not fot the driven or moving part in TTD

Ameecher wrote:
proportionally small in all views which will cause them to almost be lost in the TT World.

You mean I rather should use the 8 x 8 pix scale because otherwise the vehicle is "lost" in the game.. Mhhhh there you have a point. At least I want my work to be seen in the game. Otherwise I can stop right now and that is not in my mind!!

@All: Again the question I have indirectly asked before. What is the best?

a) 8 x 8 front view so a vehicle won't be lost in the game
b) 5 x 7 / 8 (old) and 6 / 7 x 8 (newer / modern) trams.

I still prefer b, the servian (first) tram is 5 pixels and you still can see it. But drawing is more difficult cause you have less space options.

[Ameecher]

I'd say 6x8 for old and 8x8 for modern, that's what the UKTS uses and it looks fine
A thing to bear in mind though, the diagonal views are going to be seen the most as the _ and | views will only be seen in corners, just thought you may want to bear that in mind.

[FooBar]

I'll have to agree with Ameecher here, but don't want to force you to draw all vehicles over again. The width of a default TT road vehicle is 8px.
As for coding, it doesn't matter how wide a vehicle is. Only lengths are important: they should match in all views of a vehicle.
I posted a little something on this earlier on, here, maybe you missed that.

The older trams had engine vehicles and towed vehicles. Maybe it is a nice idea to draw them too. Both trams had towed wagons attached in busy times. But I don't know if that can be coded or if it will cost me an ID

That can be coded just like any other aRV (articulated road vehicle). If you want to be able to both buy a single and an engine+towed wagon, there's to ways to code that.
One way is the dirty way, but has his advantages. One of the advantages is that it only costs one ID for both types. Switching between engine and engine+wagon is done trough refit. The dirty side is that it's not possible to attach or detach a wagon. To simulate an engine without a towed wagon, the wagon needs to be invisible (but it's still there!). The invisible wagon will be visible in the vehicle details window and will have a capacity (although reduced).
The clean way is to use an extra ID, solving all side-effects described above, but there's one ID less to use for other stuff.

If the set only contains passenger trams there are 30 IDs to use. When also including passenger trucks (most people call those buses), you can add 3 more IDs.
When creating a full Road Vehicle set (passengers and freight) there's 88 IDs to use.
It might go without saying that Toyland is not supported in all cases.

[Rendall]

You do force me anyway I am not the coder and TTDP needs more coders. If I am not changing my drawing you won't code them! Little joke But I want to hear it what we are going to do because changing and redrawing is a time consuming business. But it have to be alright befor coding.
Old trams will be 6 x 7 (or and new trams from about 1990 will be 8 x 8. That's alright to you? Keep in mind that I have the same question about road vehicles. Wat pix should we use over there?

[FooBar]

I'm not forcing anything, really! I will happily code a vehicle of any size. So please don't change anything for me unless you really want to yourself.

Those sizes you suggest are fine by me. Old trams a bit smaller than newer ones.
I've currently drawn one section of the Combino, with a front of 8 by 8 pixels. I find it really hard to put all details in such a small scale.

As for road vehicles I'd suggest to stick to TT's default sizes. Those are 8px wide, 7px high and 28px long. Of course we can vary a bit (e.g. 8*8*32). I think we should stick to TT scale. Personally, I don't like those over-sized vehicles (no offence, George).
Keep in mind that for normal road vehicles it's also possible to have trailers.

I'll start coding some vehicles as soon as I've finished that Combino. I'm in a drawing mood now, and don't want to spoil that by starting to code before it's finished. I guess I can start coding a bit at the beginning of next week (maybe sunday, most likely monday).

[Rendall]

In PM agreed with my companion coder 6px old trams and 8px new trams. Most of the trams till 1975 will be classified old because they were smaller. Well lets have a look at the Allen 152 - 201 and the Werkspoor 21 -150. Both are refurbished to 6 pixels

[Ameecher]

If it's 6px wide in the | view then it needs to be 4 px wide in the / view, currently you've done 6 and 5 which looks really weird.

[AndersI]

I think it could be problematic to position vehicles correctly on the tracks if they have odd-numbered widths. You can't offset the vertical view one half pixel, so it will be impossible to put the tram right on track. In the diagonal views it is less of a problem, and in horizontal no problem at all (as the width is only how much roof is seen).

As trams are most only seen in diagonal views (and horizontal in the buy window), this isn't a show stopper, but for a train it would be.

[Rendall]

Hmmm in the game it have to be seen smootly. In that case even pix are better. But for drawing its much easier to draw in odd pix cause you can better draw the windows. Well.. I have open my older version before Ameecher has comment about the tram and after he did. I mixed both versions and refurbisch again. The onlu disadvance is that the werkspoor tram has bit strange window now. But with even pix I can't fix that. Both are still very nice I think.

[FooBar]

Looking good!

My Combino is finished too. Pictures of the real life thing are available here.

Connections between carriages 1-2 and 4-5 might need to be redone to look like the ones between 2-3 and 3-4. Currently sprites don't line up quite right to let all connections look the same.

[Ameecher]

Nice, very nice but from the pictures you posted it looks like the carraiges are all roughly the same length yet appears to me that you have a different length for each part. Just my view though.

[Rendall]

That one is a release! This one must realy be a part of the set. Nice job! Please put it in the _xxx_Combino_release folder at the server if you want to. You wil find my stuff also.

[FooBar]

@Ameecher:
Looking at the first page(s) of pictures it looks that all carriages are the same size. Here's a pretty good picture taken from the side showing pretty clearly that only the front and the end are the same size. I took 8/8th for the second carriage, 5/8th for the middle and 6/8th for the others.


I'm gonna edit it a bit, create some real sprites and upload it the ftp server.

[Ameecher]

Hmmm, I think that picture is deceptive because the tram is on the curve. I actually think the tram is symmetrical so that it goes ABCBA where A are the two end units and C is the Pantograph section and B being the other parts.

Edit: forget that you are right FooBar.

[FooBar]

I counted my share of windows But thanks for your thorough review. It surprised me too when I look more carefully and saw that that thing isn't symmetrical.

Anyways, here's my second -in my opinion final- version. Fixed the alignment issues, all carriages are evenly spaced now. I didn't include the sprites this time, not really important for a showcase IMO.

[Rendall]

Alright. I have finished a non motorized tram which were attached behind a motorised car. It has to be attached behind the Allan 152 - 201. Was not realy a lot of work because it is almost the sam. Only 1 window extra. But I hav to put it behind the motorised tram How do I do that or is that coded?

[AndersI]

@Rendall: I think the werkspoor should be a bit rounded in the ends, at least in vertical view. See example below.

[Ameecher]

FooBar, it looks good but I think you need to make the Pantograph larger, remember you've got to make it look like it is touching the wires in the game, that current one looks to short to even reach the top shelf in a newsagents

[Rendall]

@AnderI: It makes a difference. But I tried also on the \ / -- view but that wasn't a succes. Bt with both the | view its nice indeed.

@Foobar: I am still looking for the co wagon behind the werkspoor 21 - 150 but I can't find it. But I have draw before the Allan 127 - 151. It was my first creation... Shall I refurbisch it, strip the engine and give it al little painting