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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:34 pm 
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Years ago I did play TTDX on an old 486 DX2 66 mHz. I can remember that I had to buy myself a new VGA adaptor cause my old one did only 16 colors.... :] Yeah, the good old time :lol: Recently I just find a few old floppy disc's with that beatiful game on it. After a little search on the web I realised that that old game is still not death yet. Nope, a small group of people works very hard to keep this beautiful game going on... :mrgreen: .. well, so far my story.

At the moment I have running the latest patch with different grf installed. But one feature I like very much is the tram. Unfortunately, most of them are from the last 10 years. Or are maybe.... uncompleted perhaps :roll: Thats why I just started a little drawing of Dutch trams.
I want to draw a set of trams, buses and lorries as a whole RV set. I understood that trams ar road vehicles like busses and lorries but onlu has a depot of their own. The first vehicles will be from about 1910 and I planned to have a new one each 15 or 20 years till... 2020 or later.

I will include the 2 drawings I have at the moment. I would be very pleased to hear what you think about them. With thanks at Purno and Hyronymus for their little advice the last few days. Furthermore I hope there will be some more drawers and coders to help me with this project.

[b]update:[/b]

One year and a month later and finally we have a release candidate. I am very glad about the results. With FooBar as my fellow and very enthousiastic coder / adviser and even drawer :] and also other people who are available for advise / etc we did the job. Enjoy this set. It is made with love for TTD...... for now I only can say good bye for the moment. The birth of my child is more important but there will be an other TTTD lover....!! :mrgreen:

Grtzzz Rendall :P


Last edited by Rendall on Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:16 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:36 pm 
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- removed by Rendal due too outdated post in topic. Next post is our beta release... enjoy! 8)


Last edited by Rendall on Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:09 pm 
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This is the development topic. For downloads, problems, bugs, suggestions, please go here.


Attachments:
DutchTramSet.png
DutchTramSet.png [ 27.2 KiB | Viewed 20700 times ]
File comment: Dutch Tram Set Release Candidate 1
DutchTramSetRC1.zip [230.3 KiB]
Downloaded 4217 times

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Last edited by FooBar on Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:26 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:22 pm 
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Let's offer my services too, publically. Rendall already exchanged numerous PM's with me and Purno about this tramset.

I too offered a section of the Dutch Trainset websapce for this Dutch Tramset. It looks like the Dutch Trainset will receive a firm upgrade somewhere in August. In the mean time I can help with creating a tracking table and look for tram statistics.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:41 am 
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So we got a tracking table, a coder, an artist, webspace and someone willing to make a website? Great news.

I'm interested to help too, though I don't know if I will actually draw things. I could give some advice on drawing though, as well as on other things.

FooBar wrote:
- I'm able to set up a website for the set, but it might be best to include it in the Dutch Trainset website.


The whole Dutch Trainset's website needs a massive update. I've asked Hyronymus several times and he (still) didn't do it. Not to blame Hyronymus, but it seems Hyronymus doesn't really like to do it. Perhaps you, FooBar, are interested to give the website a massive update? (Only say yes if you'd actually like to do it).



As for the tracking table, I'm a fan of modern stuff, and I wonder if it wouldn't be cool to include the tram in Utrecht. Hyronymus also said, in PM, that Arnhem used to have trams. And, now I think of it, couldn't we make trolleybuses too with the tram system (would be nice if you could actually code a vehicle needs road + catenary)?



FYI, I'll be going on holidays for two weeks today.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:43 am 
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As for the tracking table, how come 202 persons fitted into the PCC-1300? Your comment that with the current stats no-one would opt for a GTL seems quite right (except that the GTL might just be the only new tram available), but you could consider lowering the speeds somewhat, to reflect the fact that actual maximum speeds differ from technical maximum speeds. (Although in The Hague... has the tram always had these nice separate grass tracks? On them I readily believe a tram could make 80 km/h in 1963.)

Purno, have a nice holiday!


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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:45 am 
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Well, you hit shapes and colours, altough more texturing is certainly needed.
One thing which confuses me are pantographs. They are not looking as in photos, _ and| wiews are differ (_ looks like panto and | looks more like troley pole), and \ and / wiews are not in good perspective IMO. So, work more on pantos. It's good start anyway! :)

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Last edited by Wile E. Coyote on Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:45 am 
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MJS wrote:
Your comment that with the current stats no-one would opt for a GTL seems quite right (except that the GTL might just be the only new tram available),


Make them cheaper, either in running cost or purchase cost.

Quote:
Purno, have a nice holiday!


Thank you. :))




EDIT: Usable pantographs are attached.


Attachments:
Purno's Pantographs.PNG
Purno's Pantographs.PNG [ 3.25 KiB | Viewed 33014 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:54 am 
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Yes, I do like to give the website a major update. Creating websites is another one of my hobbies, so yes, I actually do like to do that. Of course, if Hyronymus agrees too :)

AFAIK it's not possible to code that a vehicle only needs road+wires. [nerd-talk]There's only the Action0 Property 1C to set that a vehicle requires tramtracks to operate.[/nerd-talk] Trolleybusses really require a new road type to be developed.


That capacity (202) is the added capacity of one PCC 1300 and one towed powered wagon (2100), thus actually having the capacity of two PCCs. It includes both seated passengers and standees. I got that information form this website. Stats need to be tweaked to fit more in the game anyways.

As for those grass tracks, I'm busy developing those right now :D Have a look at my sig.

@Purno:
Enjoy your holidays!

I'm going to Italy for three weeks next wednesday, but I'll announce that once again by the time I leave.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:24 am 
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Before they get forgotten, I still had those in my Dutch Trainset folders;


Attachments:
-- C Bastiaan Dec 23 2005 sneltramutrecht 102.png
-- C Bastiaan Dec 23 2005 sneltramutrecht 102.png [ 3.86 KiB | Viewed 32970 times ]
-- C Bastiaan Dec 23 2005 sneltramutrecht 102 (2).png
-- C Bastiaan Dec 23 2005 sneltramutrecht 102 (2).png [ 4.06 KiB | Viewed 32972 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:31 am 
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As I already PM-ed to Hyronymus I also like to have more trams included. Not only the ones from Rotterdam. I have more websites found with nice photo's. Unfortunately without data about the vehicles. I wil continue drawing from the site I have. Request are welcome too. At the end I want to have a list with trams and drawings and than we will pick the ones which are the best.. :wink: Not only trams by the way. I also want to include buses and freight lorries. I already made available a ftp site where my drawings can be found untill the dutch train website has had his upgrade. Meantime we can work with the FTP site. I am glad to see there are a lot of enthousiastic people around... :mrgreen:

@ FooBar: Need any assistance in webdesign? I am willing to help you. Something else: How to make drawings... Purno has a beautiful tutorial for that. Can you understand that I just started a few days ago with drawing ? 8) http://users.tt-forums.net/purno/PDT/re ... index.html
@ Purno: You will get your Tram from Utrecht included in the set. I promise you..... :P

" more texturing is certainly needed. One thing which confuses me are pantographs. "

Texturing: Maybe you can show me what you mean? Because I like them very much as they are know. I realise they could be more fency but how??
Pantographs: You are right. In the first version they were backwards but I changed that. Without a good reason after all. I thought the trams also will drive backwards and than such a pantograph won't be realistic. But meantime I changed my mind.

Some will get some FTP info

Rendall


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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:01 am 
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Rendall wrote:
@ FooBar: Need any assistance in webdesign? I am willing to help you.

Designwise any good ideas for a layout are always welcome. I'm more of the coder myself, so my designs are usually a bit square and straight. I'll see if I can put something together today.

Pantos:
Trams don't drive backwards. Well, in real life they do, but they are unable to in the game.

Texturing:
Hard to explain, but I'll give it a shot. Usually, you pick one main color for (one side) of a vehicle. By picking another color very close to the main color it's possible to add some random pixels to 'break' a surface.
Shading could also be a more appropriate term here. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Those trams look good, but it feels there something missing. Can't really explain what's missing though.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:05 am 
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It seems like everyone completely missed out the part where I mentioned that I'll be giving the Dutch Trainset website a big overhaul in August. If someone does manage to read it now then please tell me if I should reserve space for the Dutch Tramset. If you rather host the Dutch Tramset indepently you can contact Owen (I guess) and ask him for some moderate webspace.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:09 am 
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They're a promising start but there are a few things you need to consider.

Are the sizes of the sprite correct, they look one or two pixels too small (although I can't admit to having checked them).
Also on the first tram the picture you posted shows it to be Dark Blue with wood panelling however you have drawn it with yellow insets. I know the palette can be limiting at times but it has no shortage of brown. Certainly consider adding texturing to improve the look of the trams. Take a look at the default vehicles (ok they may be a bit dull but they do have very good shading).

On one final note, I trust that you avoided the Company Colours when you drew that tram ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:50 am 
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Hyronymus wrote:
It seems like everyone completely missed out the part where I mentioned that I'll be giving the Dutch Trainset website a big overhaul in August.

Well, not completely, but it didn't ring a bell for me (it should though).

Let's set things straight once and for all :)
Personally, I'd like to see all sets included in one website. That's better for the end user and doesn't make any difference from a developer point of view. Someone has to create a website and I don't care if that someone is you or me. :mrgreen:
If the rest agrees to include this tramset in the Dutch Trainset website then go ahead and reserve some space! Maybe you should consider creating a main 'DutchSet' website with three sub-sections for Trainset, Stationset and Tramset.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:15 am 
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Some more comments;

Not only Arnhem, but also Nijmegen, Haarlem, Deventer, Groningen Zwolle, Venlo and many more towns did have trams before the WO II and some even after too (eg Arnhem abolished its trams in 1952 AFAIK) Usually the trams were abandoned because the intesive damage to the infrastructure, because of the material being transported in the WOII to Germany or simply because they were cost inefficient.

Anyway just my two cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:39 am 
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Half of that I didn't know, Caelan! What does ring a bell to me are the "local tranways", tram companies that serviced a wide region with just-not-trains.

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:49 pm 
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I do know there were a lot of tram / compagnies / ways etc etc. Like Goes - Borselle which is still running on rail track. But also Tholen to Antwerp (Belgium) or Rotterdam to Hellevoetsluis - ferry - Middelharnis to Ouddorp. But don's forget that al lot of those were called trams but were in fact trains and that's why a lot has been abbonded and were absolutely cost inefficient. But those were trains and not trams. :?

At this moment I think we should do it with trams from Rotterdam, The Hague, Amsterdam and Utrecht. Old and new, that doesn't matter.
two or three others are also OK. Post a photo of it and lets talk about it. I think this is a fair agreement. :] I don't like to exclude those beautiful trams but we can't include all off them. :cry: By the way: I have thinging about horse trams also but I think that's also a little to creative :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:52 pm 
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Rendall wrote:
By the way: I have thinging about horse trams also but I think that's also a little to creative :mrgreen:


This might be a stupid question, but did they still use horse trams in 1920?

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 Post subject: Re: Start Dutch Tramset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:02 pm 
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Yes, they did. In some places they have used horses for transport till WOII. After the war things go fast and most places has roads as we know know. But realise that in Zeeland the islands have connections from 1968 or something like that.... :)) Sound stupid doesn't it :P


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