Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

OpenTTD is a fully open-sourced reimplementation of TTD, written in C++, boasting improved gameplay and many new features.

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Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by HiTTd » 26 Aug 2019 19:13

I plan to try to port the OpenTTD to iOS and publish it on App Store. It will be free to download but I may display some ads to get some money to support the maintenance and the App Store account fee. Will this be allowed ? Do you support me to do this? Please give your opinions.

sorry for my poor English :>

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by jfs » 26 Aug 2019 19:20

Whatever you do, keep in mind that OTTD is covered by the GPL v2 license, so any modifications you make you also need to publish the source code for.

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by andythenorth » 26 Aug 2019 20:33

It’s a nice idea, but OpenTTD can’t be published on the iOS store as there is currently no legal way to do this :?

Background here. TL;DR Apple and the FSF have very different aims, which can’t be resolved.
https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by kamnet » 27 Aug 2019 01:38

andythenorth wrote:
26 Aug 2019 20:33
It’s a nice idea, but OpenTTD can’t be published on the iOS store as there is currently no legal way to do this :?

Background here. TL;DR Apple and the FSF have very different aims, which can’t be resolved.
https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance
Is this still the case 9 years later?

Even if it is, there is an easy solution - offer the binary outside of the store and users can sideload it.

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by orudge » 27 Aug 2019 08:11

Yes, my understanding is that without us relicensing OpenTTD (which, practically, is going to be impossible, unless we contact every contributor - some of whom we may not know about now due to the early SVN repository loss), it can't be released on the App Store, unfortunately, which is a shame, as I expect on iPads in particular it would be quite popular.

Legal issues aside, we have the issue that somebody has registered "OpenTTD" on the Microsoft Store, and as such we now can't use that name for the official version of OpenTTD. I would therefore object to any game being released as "OpenTTD" on the App Store, especially if it had ads. The game should be released under a different name in that situation. Full source code must also be released of course. But since legally you can't release it, it's moot point.

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by Auge » 27 Aug 2019 09:47

Hello
kamnet wrote:
27 Aug 2019 01:38
Even if it is, there is an easy solution - offer the binary outside of the store and users can sideload it.
That's impossible because iOS doesn't allow side loading (with exception from big companies with special certificates and developers).
orudge wrote:
27 Aug 2019 08:11
Legal issues aside, we have the issue that somebody has registered "OpenTTD" on the Microsoft Store, and as such we now can't use that name for the official version of OpenTTD. ... The game should be released under a different name in that situation. Full source code must also be released of course. But since legally you can't release it, it's moot point.
Errr, call it "Official OpenTTD". A question legally wise: Does the offeror of the OpenTTD copy in the MS store provide the source code?

Tschö, Auge

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by orudge » 27 Aug 2019 10:15

Auge wrote:
27 Aug 2019 09:47
Errr, call it "Official OpenTTD". A question legally wise: Does the offeror of the OpenTTD copy in the MS store provide the source code?
That's what we've done, it's available here. :)

It looks like the web site for the "fake" version has recently gone down, so any source code that was there is not currently accessible.

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by HiTTd » 28 Aug 2019 09:00

orudge wrote:
27 Aug 2019 10:15
Auge wrote:
27 Aug 2019 09:47
Errr, call it "Official OpenTTD". A question legally wise: Does the offeror of the OpenTTD copy in the MS store provide the source code?
That's what we've done, it's available here. :)

It looks like the web site for the "fake" version has recently gone down, so any source code that was there is not currently accessible.

The RetroAppX‬ version
And the support page is down.

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by kamnet » 28 Aug 2019 18:47

Auge wrote:
27 Aug 2019 09:47
kamnet wrote:
27 Aug 2019 01:38
Even if it is, there is an easy solution - offer the binary outside of the store and users can sideload it.
That's impossible because iOS doesn't allow side loading (with exception from big companies with special certificates and developers).
Nope. https://beebom.com/how-to-sideload-apps ... jailbreak/

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by Auge » 29 Aug 2019 13:14

Hello
kamnet wrote:
28 Aug 2019 18:47
Auge wrote:
27 Aug 2019 09:47
kamnet wrote:
27 Aug 2019 01:38
Even if it is, there is an easy solution - offer the binary outside of the store and users can sideload it.
That's impossible because iOS doesn't allow side loading (with exception from big companies with special certificates and developers).
Nope. https://beebom.com/how-to-sideload-apps ... jailbreak/
Sorry, but that's not a serious proposal, is it? As first, the function is meant for app development and second, the guide is for iOS 10 (current version is 12.4.1). Even it might work with the current (i)OS version (can not try it myself), you'll need a MacOS device to install the program on your iPhone or iPad. So yes, it is a way for a few people but it's IMHO far from being a way for most of the audience with iOS devices.

Tschö, Auge

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by andythenorth » 29 Aug 2019 13:36

Maybe iOS needs a remote server returning a stream (horrible latency), or browser-based version of OpenTTD (proof of concepts exist).

It’s pretty trivial to embed webkit inside an ios app. There is now also a rudimentary filesystem in iOS so there might be a way to handle savegame save/load locally. Interesting would be the ability to use newgrf and other content.

I see no solution to a true iOS port as re-licensing OpenTTD is not viable. :twisted: Price of entry for iOS: it’s not in any way open. Posted from my iPad :twisted:

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by kamnet » 29 Aug 2019 17:18

Auge wrote:
29 Aug 2019 13:14
Sorry, but that's not a serious proposal, is it?
Of course its a serious proposal. Yes its going to require iOS users to do a little work with a computer, which I'm sure most of them will have. But it is actually possible.

That was just one example. Here's more:
https://gadgetcubes.in/cydia-impactor-ios-12/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/it ... d.2067329/
Andythenorth wrote:I see no solution to a true iOS port as re-licensing OpenTTD is not viable.
Sure it is. Apple cannot legally stop you from enforcing GPL.

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by andythenorth » 29 Aug 2019 20:58

kamnet wrote:
29 Aug 2019 17:18
Sure it is. Apple cannot legally stop you from enforcing GPL.
By “true” I mean available in the iOS App Store, which isn’t possible :wink:

Sideloading via a developer account does look interesting though.

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by orudge » 02 Sep 2019 09:00

There was a previous iPhone port here, but the site that hosted it is long gone, and I don't know that any source code was ever released for it. There was also another version from "ZodTTD" mentioned here.

As noted, Apple licensing restrictions mean we can't release OpenTTD on the App Store, but a good quality port that can be sideloaded by those dedicated enough to want to use it might not be the worst thing. The Android port seems reasonable on my Kindle Fire - ideally the source for that should be incorporated into trunk though. (I'm not sure how many differences there are in it, I haven't looked lately.)

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by HiTTd » 26 Sep 2019 07:23

Here are the screenshots. Graphics/Sound/network etc all work great. I don't know if Apple will allowed me to publish this to the AppStore :>
11.jpg
screenshot11
(240.88 KiB) Not downloaded yet
22.jpg
screenshot22
(408.96 KiB) Not downloaded yet
33.jpg
screenshot33
(610.65 KiB) Not downloaded yet

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by orudge » 26 Sep 2019 15:41

As things stand, no, you won't be able to. However, if you can release the source code, dedicated users can build it themselves and deploy it to their own devices. We can also look at merging the code into trunk. Thanks for your work! :)

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by HiTTd » 11 Oct 2019 02:12

Apple deny my submit for reason : 4. 3 Design: Spam.
I guess they may think this is just a COPY of Transport Tycoon By 31x Limited .

Please help me how to tell them they're wrong :(

==============================================
4. 3 Design: Spam
Hello,

Thank you for your reply. Just as we would not share information from your Apple Developer Program account with another developer, we do not share the details of apps submitted under other Apple Developer Program accounts.

During our review, we found that this app duplicates the content and functionality of other apps submitted to the App Store, which is considered a form of spam and not appropriate for the App Store.

Apps submitted to the App Store should be unique and should not duplicate other apps. We encourage you to create a unique app to submit to the App Store. For more information about developing apps for the App Store, visit the Develop section of the Apple Developer website.

We look forward to reviewing your future submissions.

Best regards,

App Store Review
Last edited by HiTTd on 11 Oct 2019 02:15, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by HiTTd » 11 Oct 2019 02:13

I will when all things get done :)
orudge wrote:
26 Sep 2019 15:41
As things stand, no, you won't be able to. However, if you can release the source code, dedicated users can build it themselves and deploy it to their own devices. We can also look at merging the code into trunk. Thanks for your work! :)

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by kamnet » 11 Oct 2019 05:45

HiTTd wrote:
11 Oct 2019 02:12
Please help me how to tell them they're wrong :(
I know nothing about their system, but if there's a way to communicate back with them, I'd ask them to inform you of what specific apps they believe yours is a copy of. If they cannot or will not, then assert that your submission is not spam and is valid for submission.

Unfortunately I've had experience in debating dumb decisions like this. A few years back I uploaded some original recordings of Scott Joplin's music on YouTube. The music itself is public domain. After six months, YouTube sent me a notice that my videos were being taken down because a third party on behalf of Warner Bros. was claiming copyright on the music. I had to repeat myself six times in a row that the submitted music was original and that the music score was public domain. Eventually my challenge prevailed, but it took me three months to do so.

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Re: Do you support me to dev OpenTTD for iOS?

Post by HiTTd » 11 Oct 2019 07:27

kamnet wrote:
11 Oct 2019 05:45
I know nothing about their system, but if there's a way to communicate back with them, I'd ask them to inform you of what specific apps they believe yours is a copy of. If they cannot or will not, then assert that your submission is not spam and is valid for submission.
No. they don't tell me anything about other apps. I can only guess.
HiTTd wrote:
11 Oct 2019 02:12
Thank you for your reply. Just as we would not share information from your Apple Developer Program account with another developer, we do not share the details of apps submitted under other Apple Developer Program accounts.

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