Train-Trams in OpenTTD

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acs121
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Train-Trams in OpenTTD

Post by acs121 »

So by checking PikkaBird's Standard Gauge Tram Tracks, i thought of an idea : why not include train-trams ?

I thought about the vehicles : Siemens Avanto (2006) and Citadis Dualis (2016).

However, this may be quite difficult. Tram tracks are considered as roads so they can't be placed on rails, and you can't put rails on roads.
The only solution to have something like that is to make some terraformation and destroying a little buildings and placing bridges over road but you'll need tolerant authorities for that.

So would it be possible...or not ?
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Re: Train-Trams in OpenTTD

Post by Redirect Left »

That'd be a cool feature. Near me there is a Tram-Train starting using these; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_399

would be nice to replicate it
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Re: Train-Trams in OpenTTD

Post by Pyoro »

I think the best you can do ... is fake it. Like usual ;)

Have the "train" part of the tram run into a depot at the edge of town, and start the "tram" part of the route there from a tram depot. Using precise time schedules, it might look like one vehicle. Kind of. ^^
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Re: Train-Trams in OpenTTD

Post by Pilot »

It's certainly been proposed, and may be possible with the advent of NotRoadTypes. Would like to see these myself, I know they're rather common in Germany for example, and my current German Game would have benefited from them.

As for the British Tram-Trains/Class 399s; they've just been a bit of a farce so far.
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Re: Train-Trams in OpenTTD

Post by acs121 »

Pyoro wrote:I think the best you can do ... is fake it. Like usual ;)

Have the "train" part of the tram run into a depot at the edge of town, and start the "tram" part of the route there from a tram depot. Using precise time schedules, it might look like one vehicle. Kind of. ^^
I already tried a lot of times this kind of thing, like with precise time schedules a bus going from a big city to a smaller city with a dock, then the passengers are transfered to the dock and just after the boat comes and take the passengers to an island.

I also tried, by destroying tons of buildings, to create a "downtown railway line" which follows roads. It allows for my intercity trains accomplishing a long travel to start downtown to get more passengers :lol:

I've also read "NotRoadTypes" and it looks pretty cool.
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Re: Train-Trams in OpenTTD

Post by acs121 »

So, after seeing NotRoadTypes, and trying to develop a tramway vehicle, a Bombardier Talent like the O-Train's, i wanted to suggest this again.

Here's how it would work for the tracks :

Is the train electric with 3rd rail ?
YES - It can run on tram tracks only if pushed or pulled by a steam, diesel or electric with catenary machine.
NO - Get to the following question.

Is the train electric with catenary ?
YES - It can only run on electrified tram tracks.
NO - It can run on electrified or unelectrified tram tracks.

Is the train longer than 1,5 tiles ?
YES - It cannot go at more than 30 kph on tram tracks, and will load slower at stops.
NO - It can go at 70 kph on tram tracks, and will load normally at stops.

Does the train carry passenger and freight cargoes ?
YES - Cargo will only be unloaded depending on the stop.
NO - It will only stop at it's respective stop types.

Is the tramway electric with catenary ?
YES - It can only run on electrified or assimilated track types.
NO - It can run on rail and assimilated types.

Note : Tramways can't be bought in train depots and vice-versa. Tramways run at their normal speed on rails.

Next thing : Tramway / Train interconnexion.
This is where we would switch from tramway to rail. Tramway track would be one-way here, and only the tile before this interconnexion can be signaled. It can be with any signals.

Next : Behaviours.

Tramways will act as trains on rails, they will obey to signals. Vice-versa, trains will act as tramways on tram tracks, and will never destroy road vehicles.
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Re: Train-Trams in OpenTTD

Post by CanisLupus »

I Think it is a great Idea.

In Germany we have things like the "Chemnitzer-Modell" and so on, where Trams use train tracks to get from City to City.

https://www.chemnitzer-modell.de/

On some routes we use some new Vehicles which can use the 750V Power from an Overhead Wire (tram) in the City of Chemnitz and than use a Onboard Diesel Generator on the not electrified train routes.
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Re: Train-Trams in OpenTTD

Post by kamnet »

Since this thread in 2018 we now have NewGRF rail track sets that offer different types of electrification, along with the ability to move from one type to the next depending on how the train is coded in the game. So you can run a tram-train, coded as a train, on different types of track style, electrification and speed, following all the rules of trains.

We also now have New RoadTypes and TramTypes (NRT), with some sets also offering different styles, electrification types and speeds. So you could also code a tram-train as a tram, following all the tram rules in the code.

The only thing that still doesn't exist is a combined train tile and road/tram tile that allows both types of vehicles to operate simultaneously. There likely will never be any effort made to change that. One can already simulate running railed vehicles on roads by using tramtypes, or one could design a train track that matches a road surface (even though no road vehicles can actually use it).
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Re: Train-Trams in OpenTTD

Post by odisseus »

I believe it is possible to implement true train-tram operation in OpenTTD.

It is true that trains and road vehicles behave in a very different way, and the game keeps them in separate lists. However, it should be possible to decouple the vehicle's identity (sprite set, age, power, cargo load, profit etc.) from its behaviour (train, tram, truck, ship, plane, or helicopter).

Image

One could imagine various kinds of transition tiles, upon entering which the vehicle would change its behaviour according to some rules. The vehicle would be removed from the list of its current type (e. g. road vehicles), and added to the list of another type (e. g. trains). For tram-trains in particular, the conversion between train wagons and tram sections should be pretty straightforward. The transition tile could comprise two depots of the respective kinds placed back to back: the vehicle would enter one side as a train, and exit the other side as a tram.

Of course, it would no longer be possible to have separate count limits for each type of vehicles: what happens if a tram attempts to enter train tracks when the company already has the maximum number of trains? Instead, there would be a single limit for vehicles of all types, which may upset the game balance: 500 trains aren't equal to 500 road vehicles, both in terms of profitability and CPU load. Also, there will be some funny edge cases: if two train-trams of the same model collide at a road-rail crossing, only one of them will be wrecked.

Another problem would be the pathfinder. Suppose a station can be reached both by railway and tram track; which path should the train-tram take? We could sidestep such decisions by leaving them to the player. Make each transition tile a timetable entry (similar to waypoints), and make the transition happen only when specified by the order (similar to refitting).

However, this idea allows implementing a great many of vehicle types which keep being requested every now and then. We could have not just train-trams, but also seaplanes, tilt-rotor aircraft, amphibious vehicles, or even a magic flying bus!

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