Dutch stations set

[Quast65]

So, if I understand you correctly, you want the stationtile to automatically change to another graphic if a road is built adjacent to it?
I'm not sure if that is possible and if so, I sure don't know how to code that

[FooBar]

I'm not sure if that is possible and if so, I sure don't know how to code that

Station variable 67 allows you to check for roads.

[Quast65]

Well it's something I'm not going to do. Got enough work already
To me it's really simple, if I don't want passengers to get on the platform by stairs at the end, I don't build those stairs and have under- or overpasses for them to reach island platforms. I wouldn't like it if stairs suddenly appear in places where I as the designer of the station hadn't planned them.
The city counsels can fill in a three page request if they want my stations to change to their roadplanning

EDIT: lots of talk, more pictures Work on the island tiles is going nicely.

DSAset04.png (107.09 KiB) Viewed 2816 times

[Eddi]

They are all single tile pieces, so you can choose yourself when you want a staircase. Don't want it, don't build it

Yes, but we all know the bad habits of towns laying roads where we don't want them. So I was thinking .

there should be a setting that disallows towns to build level crossings.

[michael blunck]

That large free space is crying for a through track.

Blame rail types ...

regards
Michael

[Purno]

Woah, you fixed the lightpoles! Good stuff!

That large free space is crying for a through track.

Blame rail types ...

regards
Michael

Hmm... makes me think.

The signs to indicate where the train should stop are usually in between the tracks. Perhaps that's an idea for a bit more detail which makes that large free space less empty?

[jor[D]1]

I like the idea of those signs, however, they are not at every station. It depends on the location of the station entrance.
(Otherwise a people might need to walk the complete platform if a 2car trains halts at the end.)

Edit, you would need 2 signs per tile, because, every sign represents one wagon.

[Quast65]

That large free space is crying for a through track.
Blame rail types

It is indeed a very large open space, but as you already mentioned that is because of the railtype.
What would look better in my opinion is a railtype with two tracks on one tile, should be possible right? Because you already have horizontal and vertical tiles that have two tracks on them?
Quick mockup, doesn't look too bad (I put the two original two-track tiles in it for reference to size):

Tworailtile.png (10.32 KiB) Viewed 2698 times

Maybe something for railtypedevelopers to look at....
A bonus but also a problem would be the stationbuildings/platforms. The bonus is that platforms and buildings would be placed on a seperate tile, which leaves more room for eyecandy etc. But that is also the problem, as platforms will then take up an extra tile, so you would need more room for your stations (a simple two track station is now 2 tiles wide, it would take up three tiles with this implimentation).
Furthermore, what if you want to change from two track to four track (or more), how would they be connected and is that possible within the current game (as there are more options possible/needed than currently available in the trackselection)
Right.. end of this brainstorm

The signs to indicate where the train should stop are usually in between the tracks. Perhaps that's an idea for a bit more detail which makes that large free space less empty?

I like the idea of those signs, however, they are not at every station. It depends on the location of the station entrance.
(Otherwise a people might need to walk the complete platform if a 2car trains halts at the end.)

Those pieces of eyecandy are in my opinion only suitable for complete stations and not for individual elements. It is not universal enough. There are ideas for eyecandy needed that can be put on all elements.
EDIT: I'm thinking about dirt/rubbish, grass that is stained by dust from braking of the trains.

[FooBar]

I like the idea of those signs, however, they are not at every station.

Actually they are, but sometimes there's just one at the end of the platform.

Generally there are two flavours:
- main station entrance in the middle of the platforms: signs will start somewhere round the middle of the platform towards the end, every two carriagelengths;
- main station entrance at the end of platforms: in one direction there's only one sign at the end of the platform, in the other direction there's signs all alon the platform every two carriagelengths.

And then there are numerous variations on that, depending on local circumstances. Including white signs and half white half blue signs for platform tracks that have a switch or otherwise can have two trains.

Edit, you would need 2 signs per tile, because, every sign represents one wagon.

Signs are only placed for even trainlengths, so one per tile is actually enough. Of course there may be exceptions, but generally it's 2, 4, 6 etc.

What would look better in my opinion is a railtype with two tracks on one tile, should be possible right?

Not really, because trains will keep to drive in the middle of the tile.

[Quast65]

Not really, because trains will keep to drive in the middle of the tile.

Good point, end of discussion (glad it didn't even start )

Signs are only placed for even trainlengths, so one per tile is actually enough. Of course there may be exceptions, but generally it's 2, 4, 6 etc.

Right, that is good to know. So to make it universal there could be a sign at the start of the tile and end of it, that overlap when you put two tiles together. Anyone up for drawing that?

[Eddi]

[dangerously close to pandoras box]

the problem of doubletracks is not really fitting the tracks on one tile, but allowing all possible track combinations to include it into the existing system.

i once thought about a doubletrack system, where only the x/y directions would allow doubletrack, the diagonal tracks would stay the same, the track layout on one tile would then be something like this:

Code: Select all

 -------------
|     /|\     |
|---/--|--\---|
| /    |    \ |
| \    |    / |
|---\--|--/---|
|     \|/     |
 -------------

(rotated 45° to the left and 45° to the right)

this would allow connection to all existing "middle tile" rails, and enough complexity to build junctions/crossings. but it'd be an awful lot of trackbits (and reservation bits), awkward track construction on sub-tile-level (already problematic enough with current autorail), and movement pattern problems because now the trains could turn within a tile, not only at tile borders. whether you can fit a platform on each side of the rail is then another problem, or you allow only one rail on platform tiles [but then a variation on left/middle/right side]

but this is really a discussion for another topic, and another century... ( )

[Quast65]

It sure is, but as Foobar already pointed out, it would also mean that all trainsets need to be adapted. So no use to think about that more (at least not here).

Back on topic:
Question, I seem to remember that there are sometimes some little triangular lights next to the tracks, I believe they are called "dwergseinen".
Are those used at starts/ends of platforms and therefor would those be ok for waypoints?
A bit more info here (in Dutch) http://www.marcrpieters.nl/seinen.html

[Yoshi]

It sure is, but as Foobar already pointed out, it would also mean that all trainsets need to be adapted.

or the source of OpenTTD...

[michael blunck]

That large free space is crying for a through track.
Blame rail types

It is indeed a very large open space, but as you already mentioned that is because of the railtype.
What would look better in my opinion is a railtype with two tracks on one tile [...]

I was refering to the fact that since invention of "rail types", it´d be very hard or impossible to include "fake tracks" (e.g. like this
)
simply because they won´t visually match most of the tracks from today´s "rail type" sets.

Thus: "blame rail types". Because its existence precludes things like a nice (fake) "through track" for "island" station tiles.

regards
Michael

[Quast65]

I see. That is indeed too bad, because it looks great!

Ahh well, guess that this is the way to go then (with the overpass tiles in the middle of the three tracks either as separate stationtile or as waypoint. I think I will include the overpasstiles as waypoints too):

DSAset05.png (62.56 KiB) Viewed 2631 times

[jor[D]1]

It sure is, but as Foobar already pointed out, it would also mean that all trainsets need to be adapted. So no use to think about that more (at least not here).

Back on topic:
Question, I seem to remember that there are sometimes some little triangular lights next to the tracks, I believe they are called "dwergseinen".
Are those used at starts/ends of platforms and therefor would those be ok for waypoints?
A bit more info here (in Dutch) http://www.marcrpieters.nl/seinen.html

Dwergseinen,are used on many locations. Not all stations have them. I know for sure Leiden CS uses normal signals.
Mostly they are used before big slow switch connections. Shunting yards have a lot of those signals.
Dwergseinen indicate a maximum speed of 40 km/h, no matter if green or yellow.

Is it possible to have a narrow staircase on the island platform? Just as the Tunnel

[FooBar]

Anyone up for drawing that?

Something as per attached? It's really hard to get the shape right in this little pixels. I.e. normally you'd draw it skewed, but there were no pixels to do that. I'm hoping that with other directional elements like the tracks and platforms next to them, they will work out right. Because now they're essentially drawn head-on.

[jor[D]1]

I think you should make the pole smaller only one or 2 pixels. Usually, if in the middle of tracks they are near the ground.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mearten279/8349082705/

[peter1138]

Thus: "blame rail types". Because its existence precludes things like a nice (fake) "through track" for "island" station tiles.

Rail types doesn't change this at all. It was always possible to replace the original rail sprites with something else so that it wouldn't match.

But this might be something that advanced tile layouts could help with, with a little spec additions, in which case it would be _better_ with rail types due the overlay system.

[michael blunck]

Thus: "blame rail types". Because its existence precludes things like a nice (fake) "through track" for "island" station tiles.

Rail types doesn't change this at all. It was always possible to replace the original rail sprites with something else so that it wouldn't match.

I know. No pun intended, just one of the usual jokes.

But this might be something that advanced tile layouts could help with, with a little spec additions, in which case it would be _better_ with rail types due the overlay system.

That would be quite interesting. Not that I *need* to work on something like this ATM ...

regards
Michael