OpenTTD has been removed from Google Play Store!!!

[pelya]

A bit more playable as well please?

Working on it.

That boils down to:
- making all the buttons bigger (especially the button that closes a window, you'll need to launch it on some Android phone to guess correct button size),
- changing the click-and-drag-to-menu-item menus, like Load/Save/Quit dialog, to the widely accepted elsewhere behavior when you just do two clicks (both methods may exist simultaneously, of you don't drag the menu just stays on the screen and accepts mouse clicks),
- and making sure every action in game can be performed with left mouse button click, please don't depend on right mouse button or hotkeys (it is emulated with multitouch, but users tend to skip over that part of manual. Also, there's no Android-specific manual).

That's what I've gathered from my experience, other users may disagree.
Also, those are not Android-specific changes, the PC build will also benefit from them.
So, as you may have guessed, I would like very much if other devs will fix that for me yeah I'm lazy fat butt, can't deny it

[Zephyris]

making all the buttons bigger (especially the button that closes a window, you'll need to launch it on some Android phone to guess correct button size)

Also, those are not Android-specific changes, the PC build will also benefit from them.

^Yes!^ There have been some mentions of potentially developing zoomable UI which would address this well. Do different platforms report screen dpi and resolution? If they do then it would be easy to calculate the optimal GUI zoom which keeps the biggest windows fully visible (i.e. <screen height and <screen width) while getting the buttons as close to a target actual size (i.e. in cm).

and making sure every action in game can be performed with left mouse button click, please don't depend on right mouse button or hotkeys (it is emulated with multitouch, but users tend to skip over that part of manual. Also, there's no Android-specific manual).

The only thing I can think of which absolutely reqires the right mouse or keyboard is Ctrl+click for some 'hidden' features. Map scrolling is the big issue but can be solved with the left click scroll advanced option.

[Lord Aro]

...
Do different platforms report screen dpi and resolution? If they do then it would be easy to calculate the optimal GUI zoom which keeps the biggest windows fully visible (i.e. <screen height and <screen width) while getting the buttons as close to a target actual size (i.e. in cm).
...

Resolution: definitely. DPI: iirc, yes also

Back to the DCMA request, the lawyer who made it has an 'interesting' website...
http://www.charnelaw.com/

[pelya]

There's no DPI support in Android SDL port, however it's easy to add from SDL side - I'll just set some environment variable from SDL, like DISPLAY_DPI. The tricky part will be inside OpenTTD code.

[kamnet]

Back to the DCMA request, the lawyer who made it has an 'interesting' website... http://www.charnelaw.com/

His website isn't nearly as interesting as his profile and background, though:
http://www.yatedo.com/p/Jim+Charne/norm ... c4e42887b0
http://www.audiogang.org/index.php?Item ... jim_charne

And there's also this seminar that he taught in 2004:

Understanding copyright issues; work-for-hire rules; mod games; ownership and derivative rights; limits of IP protection for games; when can they be stopped?

He's not just some dumb suit who just files frivolous DMCA takedown notices all day. He's a legal expert who hass also been a video game player and developer for almost as long as there have been video games.

[Lord Aro]

That's a lot more interesting... :L
Is it possible that CS (or his company or someone similar) hired him to do make the takedown request? A bit worrying perhaps if so...

[michael blunck]

He's not just some dumb suit who just files frivolous DMCA takedown notices all day. [...]

Well, yes. But most of the guys in the video and games market have similar background and expertise. The more interesting question would be if that takedown went more or less "by chance" or whether it´s the start of some more irritating moves.

IMO, it´d make sense to primarily target the Android market, because it´s said to be one of the important future market segments for games, and there´s already an official port of TTD, isn´t it?

regards
Michael

[Dave]

Michael has hit the nail on the head (as I did earlier).

IIRC, Chris Sawyer collaborated with a Czech company on an Android version of TTD which was released commercially.

Sawyer probably doesn't give a toss about the PC version (he really does have very little to gain now!), but the company that released the mobile port may be a little less impressed.

Since the Android version of OTTD is vanilla (or near as is possible?) and as such can be used with OpenGFX, we're not actually breaching anyone's copyright.

The issue now arises - what about intellectual property? Can you breach copyright by "nicking" Chris Sawyer's idea?

I would say in a court of law there would definitely be arguments to say that there are plenty of other games that have nicked the concept and changed the graphics - and OTTD is no different. Not that it'll get that far!

[michael blunck]

[...] I would say in a court of law there would definitely be arguments to say that there are plenty of other games that have nicked the concept and changed the graphics - and OTTD is no different. Not that it'll get that far!

Problem is that you can´t survive such a law suit w/o large money.

regards
Michael

[thphwh]

The issue now arises - what about intellectual property? Can you breach copyright by "nicking" Chris Sawyer's idea?

Aren't ideas patented? And property is copyrighted? I'm no expert in law, but hasn't this been discussed before? As long as we haven't stolen anything from TTD, it should be ok.

See it as this: there is a house with furniture from IKEA. I want to build a house next to it. I take the concept of it and build the shell of it based on the house already built. But, I get all different furniture from different shops. The concept of a house is still there but the insides are all very different.

Bad analogies aside, OTTD has done nothing to infringe copyrights. It doesn't take an idiot to see now from every discussion we've had on this to see that OTTD is a law-abiding citizen.

Why does it keep popping up so often?

[Nite Owl]

It keeps popping up because at some point in the past the code was taken from Chris Sawyer's original game and recompiled or rewritten or whatever was done to it in order to make OpenTTD what it is today. Yes, it may be far removed from that original source in its current form. Yes, the person who made this original recompilation (or whatever you want to call it) may no longer be associated with the project. Unfortunately the end result is still the same should Mr. Sawyer wish to pursue it. As an open source project or as a community with a common interest in this game there is no way we could come up with the kind of money it would take to follow such legal action to what would be a desirable end for us. They could not prosecute everyone who has ever played OpenTTD nor could they destroy every copy of it but they could use current law (cease and desist) to prevent any further development from being done on it. They could prevent it from being distributed as freely as it is now. We all must realize that we play and enjoy this game because of the good graces of Chris Sawyer and his desire to NOT pursue such legal action. We owe Mr. Sawyer on two counts. First, his production of the original game. Second, a lack of desire on his part to prevent others from taking the game even further than he did.

[Kogut]

because of the good graces of Chris Sawyer and his desire to NOT pursue such legal action

Completely unrelated as he is not current copyright holder.

[Nite Owl]

You can simply substitute the current copyright holder for Chris Sawyer in some of the points I made. My overall point was not about Mr. Sawyer or about winning or losing such a court case but was about the community not being able to put together the necessary funding to sustain a long and drawn out court case should any holder of said copyright decide to pursue such action. I also realize that copyright law varies in its scope from country to country but in general if such a cease and desist order were placed in one location the other locations would honor it until such time as the case was decided even if that decision took many years. The obvious logic here dictates that such a thing would never happen. The outlay of money that it would take on the part of the copyright holder to pursue such a case and the lack of return on that investment would, most likely, prevent such a thing from happening. However, that does not mean that it is without some legal merit.

[kamnet]

First, it's important not to panic. In fact, don't even get your hackles up until one of us, some place, are served with legal papers telling us we must appear in court. If that happens, then worry about how, or if, anything can or needs to be defended.

[Nite Owl]

I completely agree. There is no point in doing anything about this until it becomes necessary. However, since OpenTTD was removed from the Google Play Store at someone's direct request the discussion is still interesting enough on its own.

[YNM]

I'm not sure, but does actually CS know that we are here ? Does Ludde (Ludwig Strigeus) talk with CS first when about to decompile TTD and working it again in C ? I think thats all important, because it will result in some answer of why they ask for a takedown :

1. Both value yes : he just finding for money, thats it
2. Both nay : he won't sue us here probably (yet)
3. First yes and second no : be worry...
4. First no and second yes would be impossible since he knows ludde is here.

[Lord Aro]

I'm not sure, but does actually CS know that we are here ? Does Ludde (Ludwig Strigeus) talk with CS first when about to decompile TTD and working it again in C ?

Yes, and, i think, no.

In fact, do we actually know for certain that ludde ever decompiled TTD? i don't believe i've ever seen any proof...

[YNM]

In fact, do we actually know for certain that ludde ever decompiled TTD? i don't believe i've ever seen any proof...

"Reverse Engineering" - That could be decompile and try to understand the functions listed and rewrite them in C (Reverse code engineering), or try to mimic / duplicate the function itself from testing all function in TTD that exist in the binary by running it (Reverse engineering).

I have dig up the forums and get these in the dusty corner :
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=159243#p159243 - just keep reading down from there
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=5340 - quite interesting and soo nice

[Dave]

YNM, Sawyer is definitely aware of the fan-following of TTD, as you found.

I don't know whether Ludde approached him regarding OTTD - the answer is "I doubt it".

But for sure - he knows. As I understand (only through hearsay and the occasional forum post), he's not too impressed, but there's not much he can do because - as someone pointed out above - he doesn't own the copyrights anymore.

It's still a matter of pride though. It would be nice if he decided to get involved. As I said, there's not much to gain from a copyright claim - the game is surely now out of production and on the very rare occasion that a copy shows up the profit is probably in the pennies.

I would personally be proud of such a fan base following my game - but some people don't, and that's his choice.

[michael blunck]

As I said, there's not much to gain from a copyright claim - the game is surely now out of production and on the very rare occasion that a copy shows up the profit is probably in the pennies.

IIRC, Chris Sawyer collaborated with a Czech company on an Android version of TTD which was released commercially.

regards
Michael