FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Development

[planetmaker]

Thats a shame, I notice here though, that a Coal Power Station, Incinerator and Waste chain are already in the set just not implemented yet. So writing an extension would be pointless if these are already to be included.

They most probably won't be included. They're just still there from the time they were included

[Leanden]

Well if the graphics are already there, it should be very simple to reimplement them no?

[FooBar]

...a Coal Power Station, Incinerator and Waste chain are already in the set just not implemented yet.

Actually, those things were in FIRS at some point in time, but have been removed since. Power plant for reasons expressed earlier, waste and related industries are replaced by recyclables.

[andythenorth]

I've updated the FIRS site to make deprecated industries more obvious in this view: http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/ ... everything

[Bob_Mackenzie]

As Ive been playing FIRS for quite a while now (I can't recall my last vanilla industry game) I thought a few thoughts and feed back might be useful/welcome

Overall FIRS is great. I love the tangled interconnectedness of the industry chains and I love the various feedback loops. The supplies system works great and its nice that small amounts have a large effect. The inclusion of the dredging site as a water-borne industry adds interest

Some suggestions comments:

Some cargoes more important/interesting than others. Eng and farm supplies increase production. In the correct climate food and goods can lead to town growth. many of the cargoes feed in to these and are useful. However terminal cargoes that are delivered and just disappear are a bit boring. I can never be bothered with alcohol and building supplies. I sometimes deliver BS but only because the producing industry makes something more useful as well

Perhaps in tropic building supplies would be more appropriate for town growth than goods? (though this would then make goods pointless)

I like having the Farms start production low but IMO they are a mite too low at start - perhaps about 36t might be better?

I wonder if it might be interesting to have a feedback loop that requires quite a lot of supplies to get the increased production say about 100t. You need a fair number of trucks or a small train but it would be a waste to use a mega-train. What's more it would be a challenge to get production up high enough to kick start the loop. Right now once the chain is linked up its pretty easy to get enough supplies to boost production on all the industries you need to. Perhaps we could have a heavy machinery cargo, the machine shop or metal foundry could produce?

Cheers

Bob

[George]

In ECS, power stations are producing sulphur as a by-product.

Also OK. As long as the powerstation doesn't remain an endless hole to put coal in and earn quick money.

I've made some tests about game start. I want to note, that coal to power plant transportation is not the best solution. There a several solutions that provide much better results.

[Leanden]

I assume the deprecated stuff is still in FIRS and just not accessible?

[planetmaker]

The power plants and waste chain is not in the current NewGRFs, also not in a de-activated form. You find the related code and the graphics in the FIRS repository, still, though. Thus if you write that add-on, you could probably re-use (parts) of that.

[Leanden]

If I may be so bold, why is the deprecated stuff not just included in the NewGRF as a parameter, surely codewise its more efficient to include it all in a single GRF with parameters than to make extension GRFs.

[andythenorth]

@Bob - thanks for the feedback.

The town cargos were awaiting TownControl (which is a proposal only), and would affect town growth etc if that were possible. However if you try the YACD patch, they're good with that.

Supplies behaviour will get revised at some point, probably so that the amount delivered affects the chance of increase, scaled depending on current production (low/high etc).

The farms are low. I don't plan to increase them. Try a low capacity truck set

@Leanden. No, it's not more efficient.

[planetmaker]

Teaching in IRC is easier:

Code: Select all

[23:24]	andythenorth	many parameters double the amount of QA required
[23:24]	andythenorth	if 2 parameters produce 4 configurations, that's 4 times the QA
[23:24]	andythenorth	if 3 parameters produce 9 configurations...and so on :P
[23:25]	andythenorth	and then your code dies because it's buggy, and the complexity of any change in mind boggling
[23:25]	andythenorth	so no it's not more efficient
[23:25]	andythenorth	an add-on is *way* more efficient
[23:25]	andythenorth	because some other bugger has to QA that, not me
[23:26]	planetmaker	andythenorth: c&p this to the thread ;-)
[23:26]	andythenorth	you do it :P

[Leanden]

EDIT: Just seen the IRC log. Well i guess thats right, so making a seperate GRF vector is the way to go.

[planetmaker]

If you are not ready to work a bit for your ideas, it means they don't count much for you.

[Leanden]

If you are not ready to work a bit for your ideas, it means they don't count much for you.

For this i am going to learn how to code

EDIT: I've started to look at the source code and honestly im having difficulty where to start, let alone make it properly compatible with FIRS.

[Bob_Mackenzie]

I'd use GRF maker - not that I've ever tried coding industries mind you

I'd also just start with adding the power station back in and worry about the rest once you've got that to work

[Leanden]

I downloaded GRF maker, i couldn't work out how to load sprites into it, for the power station i would just have to refer to the original graphics though.

[kamnet]

Someone made a NewGRF that adds an oil-burning power plant once, I have it but need to check who made it.
(Found it, the graphics are by Born Acorn.)

Was that NewGRF compatible with FIRS?

No existing industry newgrf is compatible with FIRS. You'll have to write that yourself, I'm afraid

I've used Born Acorn's oil-burning power plant with FIRS before. I've just never had enough oil wells develop to actually make shipping to both them and the other industries that use oil worth it.

[Kjell Bjarne]

I really enjoy to play the big industry sets like FIRS and ECS. And I love to play scenarios. But there was always one thing that bothers me. Industries closes and new were found. That is a nice feature if you play generated maps. But if you play a scenario it often works against the idea of this scenario. A fictional example: You play a scenario of the world and the oil well in Saudi Arabia close and a new one is founded in Scotland.
Since some months ECS has a parameter to avoid that problem. Mainly because of that I stopped playing FIRS.

I dont know if your read my suggestion about power plants at the ECS thread. So I repeat it here.
I also dont like the power plants as they were used in TT. A black hole for fuel and no effect on the economic circuit.
But I think it could be fun to have A LOT small power plants that accepts a very limited amount of fuel. So you are forced to build up an effective transportation network to supply every city that has a power plant with fuel. A little bit of cargodist even if you play without it.
The small power plants could close the gap until there is a better solution to represent electrity in TT.
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=52505

[Leanden]

Where can i get his power plant?

[lugo]

Where can i get his power plant?

using the forum search or google might be feasible

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=15240