OpenGFX copyright discussion

[CommanderZ]

I definately don't like the GPL, because that allows for "others to make a profit out of what I did for free". CC allows to prohibit this.

But they must allow other to do this with their work too, which makes making profit of GPL licensed works somewhat complicated.

[Noldo]

CC BY-NC pretty much stand for "do whatever you like, as long as you credit me as the author of the original work and don't use the work for commercial purposes".

From dfsg number 6 on your linked source
No discrimination against fields of endeavor, like commercial use.

Same clause is also in OSI open source definition.

[FooBar]

"No discrimination against fields of endeavor, like commercial use."
is defined as:
"The license must not restrict anyone from making use of the program in a specific field of endeavor. For example, it may not restrict the program from being used in a business, or from being used for genetic research."

"Non-commercial"
is defined as:
"Licensees may copy, distribute, display, and perform the work and make derivative works based on it only for noncommercial purposes."

Given those definitions, I think you're right.
I had "Non-commercial" in mind as "you may not sell the work", but it seems there's a little more to it.


Well, personally I think "too bad". I don't think that others should be able to make a profit of what I've done for free, in any way.

[DaleStan]

So, if you write a program, no one should be allowed to charge for support? Or charge for merchandise? Or charge in exchange for some sort of warranty protection?

CafePress is making a profit from OpenTTD merchandise, for example.

[FooBar]

In case of a program, it's a different story...
OpenGFX is not a program per se and people paying for support on it are downright idiots, because one can get that support here for free.

At least the "sell the work" part should be forbidden IMO. Other commercial restrictions are open for discussion. If one can point me to an open license which does exactly that, I'll be more than happy.

[dihedral]

in all honesty, why do you not 'give' opengfx to openttd, and with that let it be under gpl

even if one of you says "i dont want others to make money with what i did for free", hey - what do you think the devs are doing?
and for sure they have invested way more time & efforts than any of you.

in addition to that, supporting a project (what ever way you choose) should be for the project and not for yourself, a selfless act. (yes, there are selfless acts)

[DaleStan]

people paying for support on it are downright idiots, because one can get that support here for free.

Not in-home installation/support, nor warranty protection.

an open license which does exactly that

In order for a license to be open/free, it must allow anyone to modify and use the covered work, if it is useful to them, for any reason and for any purpose.

The conditions are placed upon *distribution* of the work and its derivatives, not upon use.

[athanasios]

I agree with Foobar. I don't want anyone to make a profit from my artwork. Damn them. If they want to make profit let them hire an artist and replace the graphics or buy a license to use the original ones. Of course if someone wants to support the project we could discuss about a license, but always on an individual basis.

[dihedral]

you want your work to be distributed with OpenTTD? you want your work to be freely usable, and you want to support the project.
where is the darn issue?
nobody is going to make money with your graphics only! they could be printed on merchandise (e.g. stuff in the openttd shop, and guess who makes profit out of that). uh - dang it!
you guys are thinking too much about what YOU want, rather than how you can best support the project.

besides, now that you are a number of artists, that issue should have been addressed at the beginning of the project, not at the end - that leeds into silly discussions, as one artist will want x the other y
well done folks, well done!

i applaude

[planetmaker]

Hey, what's the point of creating OpenGfX graphics files, if you then kinda want to restrict the usage more than the GPL or a CC share alike license allows? Then we end up with the same problem (copyrighted graphics where distribution must be asked for every single instance) like we have now with TTDX original graphics files.

The only way to really support OpenTTD is by providing graphics where you allow incorporation into OpenTTD without the need to contact the original author, if it's distributed or modified. Note that this does NOT mean, that no credit is given to the original artists - it should! That's what should be done, if anyones artwork is used - it's much like all previous and current developers of OpenTTD are still mentioned in the acknowledgements.

So, two simple steps are needed IMO:
- the OpenGFX team has to decide upon a single license to be used for the project files, preferably GPL or at least CC share alike.
- every single contributor has to state that s/he places his/her work under this license - or get his/her stuff removed from it.

[Zephyris]

Hey, what's the point of creating OpenGfX graphics files, if you then kinda want to restrict the usage more than the GPL or a CC share alike license allows? Then we end up with the same problem (copyrighted graphics where distribution must be asked for every single instance) like we have now with TTDX original graphics files.

Have you read the terms of the CC Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike? You can distribute it and modify it freely, so long as it is for non commercial purposes and credit the original authors.

even if one of you says "i dont want others to make money with what i did for free", hey - what do you think the devs are doing? and for sure they have invested way more time & efforts than any of you. ..... you guys are thinking too much about what YOU want, rather than how you can best support the project.

Have you contributed many graphics? Do you think the contribution by the artists is insignificant in time or effort? How long do you think it has taken me to draw the ~6000 sprites I have contributed?

well done folks, well done!

i applaude

Sarcasm is definitely not a good way to help the project, If you don't have anything useful to say please don't say it at all.

[michael blunck]

@Zephyris
Could you please abstain from citing anonymously?

regards
Michael

[Zephyris]

@Zephyris
Could you please abstain from citing anonymously?

regards
Michael

OK, I'm just lazy

Please can all artists vote on the licenses they are happy with in this new thread, please don't post there (yet) if you are not voting, the argument can follow once we know what people are thinking!

[maquinista]

If You don't like the noncommercial license, You can start a new project (Maybe FreeGFX?) with a free license (GPL, CC BY-SA...). Also, if some sprites of OpenGFX allow commercial uses, They will can be used in the project.

I prefer the free licenses (BSD, GPL, CC BY...) but I am not the author of the sprites. Also, a semi-free license (CC BY-SA-NC) is not a bad idea.

[planetmaker]

Hey, what's the point of creating OpenGfX graphics files, if you then kinda want to restrict the usage more than the GPL or a CC share alike license allows? Then we end up with the same problem (copyrighted graphics where distribution must be asked for every single instance) like we have now with TTDX original graphics files.

Have you read the terms of the CC Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike? You can distribute it and modify it freely, so long as it is for non commercial purposes and credit the original authors.

Exactly my point. And yes, I've read CC licenses. And IMO the one you cite (and I spoke of before ("a share alike license") might suit the OpenGFX project just fine.

[Zephyris]

Lol, got your comment the wrong way round

[dihedral]

Sarcasm is definitely not a good way to help the project, If you don't have anything useful to say please don't say it at all.

being a snob has never supported a project very well either, has never been useful in communities! (unless you are in the anon-snob-society!)

Edit:

Have you contributed many graphics? Do you think the contribution by the artists is insignificant in time or effort? How long do you think it has taken me to draw the ~6000 sprites I have contributed?

you consider your work worth more or more time consuming than what the devs do? i would quickly turn around from that path!

[athanasios]

Cool down please. All we said is that our artwork is not available for commercial purposes. Anyone can use it in OTTD and modify it at will. What do you want? To give it to 'M*s***' and UbiS*t to make a garbage game? No thanks. If a serious company wants to make something that fits to some standards we can negotiate with them.

OpenGFX is just the start of a long trip. Sprites will be improved by time, redrawn in 32bpp, new sprites will be added in an OpenGFX+. New artists will join the project by time. Standards will be high and expectations great.

[DaleStan]

Have you read the terms of the CC Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike? You can distribute it and modify it freely, so long as it is for non commercial purposes and credit the original authors.

For the umpteenth time, that is *not* a free license.

To qualify as free/open source, neither the NC nor ND clauses may be included.

NC prohibits:
1) Distributing such a work in conjunction with any paid service, such as "Installing and configuring OpenTTD".
2) Distributing such a work on any sort of clothing, mug, or other merchandise, unless distributed for free.
3) Distributing such a work with any paid product, such as an "OpenTTD for Wii" disc.

[Purno]

Well, AFAIK, we can always give additional rights for any 'commercial' OpenTTD purposes that pop up in mind later, can't we?