In game content downloads

[Mega:Map Creator!!]

How about, reversing the whole proces and just adding all grf's to bananas, then when people(editors, artist) start complaining you could always remove it...

sorry i am a simple man, with simple thought's ,

oh and grfcrawler seems to be down : http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/

[Purno]

How about, reversing the whole proces and just adding all grf's to bananas, then when people(editors, artist) start complaining you could always remove it...

I'll report you for breaking the forum rules then.

The problem with ttrs (and other sets) is something like this:

The set was drawn by Zimmlock (most of the graphics), George, the Tycoonez.com:munity, Oz, Red*Star,
Purno and Pikkabird, and was coded by Csaboka.

e.g. for me as non-contributor it means that I need permission from all authors before we can do anything about it, we need the set released under an open license (without the oh-so-popular no-derivative clause) - and then become a co-author of it by actually making changes and/or additions.

Yes, I know it's saddening and frustrating, especially with sets where half the authors are not or only very infrequently active.

What's wrong with the No Derivative clause?

[FooBar]

What's wrong with the No Derivative clause?

As long as you actively develop and support the set/scenario/whatever, not much. But if you suddenly disappear, nobody else is allowed to release bugfixed version or add new features.

With just BY-SA (with or without the NC clause), everybody can fork your work any time they like. Of course, as with any fork it needs to be clear that a derivative is not the real deal, so most people will eventually come looking for the original. If it's better than the fork, they'll use the original.

[Purno]

Aye, in that case I'm save using ND, as I haven't disappeared the past 6 years and do not intend to do so ever

[Eddi]

What's wrong with the No Derivative clause?

in the scenario that planetmaker was describing, the ND-clause prevents you from becoming "co-author" without contacting the (presumably non-contactable) person. (it fails the desert island test)

[planetmaker]

Aye, in that case I'm save using ND, as I haven't disappeared the past 6 years and do not intend to do so ever

Yes, _you_ are save, but IMO not the survival of your great work. Anyone who likes your graphics is - in case of doubt - forced to re-invent the wheel if s/he likes the work to be future-safe.
I tried to connect every author of the #openttdcoop grfpack - I still have more than half a dozen outstanding pms in the tt-forums. Like e.g. it is now already becoming difficult to contact Zimmlock (though he can be contacted somewhat). Some other authors already disappeared completely - and I even failed to establish contact by applying more than a simple forum search, but used google and other search engines, looking through other forums, looking for contact information for that nick or connected RL names, used in the credits of some grfs. It worked in one case somewhat, but it's bound to fail with quite some nicks here. And grfs whose authors are not around anymore are bound to fall into oblivion.
So looking at my success at getting information for all grfs in the pack, yes, it happened and happens a lot that people disappear - even without needing to resort to desaster-scenarios concerning their RL.

Sorry to be so blatant, but the argument "I'm still here" is a quite lame one in support of the ND clause and it's use fills me with sadness as it is anything but future safe from a community POV.

EDIT: Zimmlock, not Zephyris, slowly disappears...

[Purno]

I understand your reasons to hate ND, however, as an artist myself I'd like some control about what's going to happen with my stuff.

Besides, I can't imagine myself not to be contactable ever, unless I die, which is hopefully going to take another 50 years at least.

[Eddi]

so, what then happens in the 70 year period afterwards?

[michael blunck]

What´s the problem? From my experience, there was never a .grf being lost on the internet. On the contrary, and that´s the real problem. I.e., I´d like to see .grfs with an in-built best-before date.

regards
Michael

[Eddi]

I don't think the real-time-date is exposed as an NFO variable

anyway, the problem with that thought is that you do not know that a grf will be out of date at some point, and especially not at which point, in advance of that point actually being reached. sins of youth do not only happen to GRF-authors

[Rubidium]

I´d like to see .grfs with an in-built best-before date.

What best-before date would you've chosen for e.g. DB Set XL (v0.82)?

[peter1138]

What´s the problem? From my experience, there was never a .grf being lost on the internet.

*cough* http://www.ttdpatch.de

[Hyronymus]

What´s the problem? From my experience, there was never a .grf being lost on the internet.

*cough* http://www.ttdpatch.de

Hehe, the irony. But technically Michael is still right, his gfr's can still be dowloaded.

[Eddi]

yeah, but there was a time where practically every week someone asked "where can i download GRF XYZ? it was on michael's site, but it is down." having links spread out through and buried deeply in various topics doesn't really help there.

[michael blunck]

Yes. In fact, the internet being a distributed medium is the perfect data storage. You might even find my temporarily offline site there.

@Eddi: by searching the net, either manually or by using a clever tool.

regards
Michael

[Eddi]

well, you don't have to tell me.

anyway, in Bananas, you can set a maximum Version, which you can lower later, this helps in phasing out old GRFs (although it won't completely stop them being usable)

[Moriarty]

Aye, in that case I'm save using ND, as I haven't disappeared the past 6 years and do not intend to do so ever

That's the reason most young people don't have a Will (yes, this includes me). They think they'll be around forever, but it's not unknown for young people to die.

In relation to your being around here, on top of the risk of dying, there's also the possibility of there being an unforseen change in your circumstances that will take your offline or off these forums. Just because it hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't. I don't pay much attention to off-topic forum but I do see that people disappear all the time as planetmaker so clearly demonstrated.

[Purno]

I'm aware of that risk. However, I'm looking for a simple and quick solution to prevent my work being lost when I'm dead, but keeping some control over my work when I'm alive.

[FooBar]

Then maybe you should consider a custom license in which you specifically state what is and what is not allowed. Maybe we should formulate a "General TTD License" or GTTDL for short.

Come to think of it. ND for scenarios is a bit weird: one isn't allowed to save the game while playing the scenario, as that would create a derivative

[Thief^]

How about a clause that says that if it's apparent that you have abandoned xyz, then after all reasonable attempts to contact you have been made without success xyz becomes public domain?