Road Vehicle ID Range Usage Proposal

[George]

George, if you still want those two reserves... Shouldn't be too much of a problem. 20 buses + 16 bus reserve and 16 trucks + 16 truck reserve is possible with these two schemes.
But I still don't really see the need of that.

I think 16 trucks may appear later, that first trolley set. That means I suggest to transform 32 truck slots into 16 truck slots an 16 slots in reserve and simply wait, what will happen. If someone will fill up 16 truck slots with different trucks first, we'll call these reserve as trucks slots. If a trolley set would come out first, we'll call them trolley slots.
At least we waste nothing now. Reserve is a thing that can be used when required. Much worse when you have something to put in, but have no free space

[FooBar]

Here you go, Excel file (see below)

Although I support the idea of the truck/trolley reserve, I see problems there.

Trolleys are a brand new type of road vehicle (just like trams). In order to make trolleys compatible with the default vehicles, you can only use toyland ids for trolleys (just like trams).
And where are the remaining toyland ids? Right, in the bus slot. Reserving 16 toyland ids (form the bus slot), would lead to at most 12 buses in 'compatible' mode. A bit meager compared to the 36 in 'incompatible' mode.

Reserving 16 truck ids, would render trolleys incompatible with the default grapics per default. I don't know if we should want that.

Apart from all this, I expect trolleys just to be a replacement for trams. Just some kind of newgrf replacing the tramtracks with trolley wires. That way, trolleys *should* use the tram ID range and we don't have a problem.

[George]

Here you go, Excel file (see below)

Your file illustrates the attempt to make sets compatible with default RVs. I supposed we decided to have two incompatible schemes. Do you plan to make the second one?

[FooBar]

illustrates the attempt to make sets compatible with default RVs

The scheme called The Compatible Way indeed illustrates that.
With that scheme you can have up to 28 buses, 32 trucks and 20 trams, compatible with default RVs.

The last scheme (called The way to go?) is itself compatible with the previous one, but not nescesarrily with the default RVs (for trucks and trams, this still holds true because compatibility with previous scheme).
With this scheme you can have up to 36 buses, 32 trucks and 20 trams.

The idea was to have both schemes at the same time. If a developer wants a set to be compatible with default RVs, he uses scheme I. If that's not requires, he chooses scheme II and can have more buses.
Sets using either scheme are compatible with each other and it still is possible to make a set compatible with default if a developer wants to.

So the second one is in there too

[George]

illustrates the attempt to make sets compatible with default RVs

The scheme called The Compatible Way indeed illustrates that.
With that scheme you can have up to 28 buses, 32 trucks and 20 trams, compatible with default RVs.
The last scheme (called The way to go?) is itself compatible with the previous one, but not nescesarrily with the default RVs (for trucks and trams, this still holds true because compatibility with previous scheme).
With this scheme you can have up to 36 buses, 32 trucks and 20 trams.
The idea was to have both schemes at the same time. If a developer wants a set to be compatible with default RVs, he uses scheme I. If that's not requires, he chooses scheme II and can have more buses.
Sets using either scheme are compatible with each other and it still is possible to make a set compatible with default if a developer wants to.
So the second one is in there too

What for do we need these two be compatible? It would be much better for incompatible schema to use continuous ranges for all the vehicles types. First 20 IDs for buses, then 16 for reserve 1, than 16 for trucks, than 16 for reserve 2, and than 20 for trams.
But because trams and trucks are build in different depots, the player will not see the gap, so tram IDs may be located between Truck IDs and reserve 2. That means there is no profit to change the IDs location schema http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=390095#p390095 . All we need is to add more details

IDs 00h-14h are buses
IDs 15h-22h are reserve 1 for buses
IDs 23h-32h are reserve 2 for trucks
IDs 33h-47h are trams
IDs 48h-57h are trucks
So, we do not need to change any existing set.

As alternative
IDs 00h-14h are buses
IDs 15h-22h are reserve 1 for buses
IDs 23h-32h are reserve 2 for trucks
IDs 33h-42h are trucks
IDs 43h-57h are trams

[FooBar]

Having those two schemes compatible means that a set using scheme I is also compatible with another set using scheme II. Increasing compatibility, nothing more than that.

I know it's easier to use continuous ranges, but I wouldn't say its better.


But let me look into this to see if it might work out after all...

EDIT:
Looked into it

Although I still think my two schemes are better (not easier!), I might have a new proposal which could suit you. At least I can live with it. Here goes:

00h - 13h: Buses 1
14h - 23h: Trucks 1
24h - 33h: Trucks 2
34h - 43h: Buses 2
44h - 57h: Trams

That way, we can still have two schemes which are compatible with each other (thus have more sets that are compatible with each other) AND one of those schemes can be compatible with default vehicles. As a bonus, the ID ranges are pretty much continuous.

This gives us
20 Buses in compatible scheme.
24 Buses in compatible scheme with 4 dynamic IDs.
36 Buses in incompatible scheme.
32 Trucks in both schemes.
20 Trams in both schemes.

[George]

00h - 13h: Buses 1
14h - 23h: Trucks 1
24h - 33h: Trucks 2
34h - 43h: Buses 2
44h - 57h: Trams

that is much better.

This gives us
20 Buses in compatible scheme.
24 Buses in compatible scheme with 4 dynamic IDs.
36 Buses in incompatible scheme.
32 Trucks in both schemes.
20 Trams in both schemes.

Well, I plan to use bus range 1 as city buses, bus range 2 as coaches. That would be fine, IMHO.
I also suggest all the coders not to use the second truck range unless they fill the first range completely.

Now we need the opinion of the other vehicle sets' coders

[FooBar]

This is good news!

You are happy, I am happy. Now lets wait if 'the rest' is still happy. Maybe we should start a new topic for that, since it has been a while that anyone else beside you and me has posted here.

[George]

This is good news! You are happy, I am happy. Now lets wait if 'the rest' is still happy. Maybe we should start a new topic for that, since it has been a while that anyone else beside you and me has posted here.

May be you could simply PM all the RV sets developers? There are not much around.

[wallyweb]

... Maybe we should start a new topic for that ...

Just change the title of this thread to something more appropriate.

Then PM the other coders with a link pointing to this thread.

Once you have reached a consensus, post the description in the first post, change the title once more, and then ask a moderator to sticky it.

Then get somebody to wiki it.

I love it when a plan comes together

[FooBar]

Just change the title of this thread to something more appropriate.

That I will.

May be you could simply PM all the RV sets developers? There are not much around.

Let's see who we got (in random order)...

• Ameecher
• Uwe
• Wile E. Coyote
• PikkaBird
• Zephyris
• RK
• karlneil
• stevenh
• WhiteHand

Did I miss someone?

sticky it

I don't think that will be required, but we could ask anyways.

get somebody to wiki it

I wouldn't mind doing that myself actually. Only thing is that English isn't my native language, so I need someone to check my spelling and correct grammatical errors.

[wallyweb]

Only thing is that English isn't my native language, so I need someone to check my spelling and correct grammatical errors.

I'm already doing that for George's ECS stuff so I guess one more wouldn't hurt. Mind you though, my services do not come cheap.

[FooBar]

For the Road Vehicle ID Reccomendation, please refer to the wiki.


------------------
Draft proposal below.
Please see wiki for latest recommendation.


Road Vehicle ID Range Usage Proposal
This is a draft guideline for Road Vehicle ID usage by NewGRF authors.

Preface
Several new Road Vehicle sets are currently being developed. It would be nice if a bus set is compatible with someone else's truck set or that a tram set is compatible with another combined truck/bus set. We did some research on how this could be made possible. The result is this guideline. NewGRF authors can follow this guideline to make their set compatible with sets made by others.

Aim
Make Road Vehicle sets compatible with other road vehicle sets.
Compatibility is extremely useful for partial road vehicle sets, i.e. Bus-only, Truck-only or Tram-only sets or any combination of those.

Number of vehicles per type
If a NewGRF author requires his set to be compatible with the default vehicles, he can use up to:
- 24 Bus IDs
- 32 Truck IDs
- 20 Tram IDs

If a NewGRF author does not require his set to be compatible with the default vehicles, he can use up to:
- 36 Bus IDs
- 32 Truck IDs
- 20 Tram IDs

Both schemes are compatible with each other. This means for example that a bus set incompatible with the default vehicles is still compatible with a tram set that is compatible with the default vehicles.

Ranges to use
00h - 13h: Buses 1
14h - 23h: Trucks 1
24h - 33h: Trucks 2
34h - 43h: Buses 2
44h - 57h: Trams

Please look at the attached Excel worksheet for details and what bus IDs can be used if compatibility with the default vehicles is required.

Final notes
These guidelines are intended for new sets and sets currently being developed only. There's no requirement for old sets to change their ID scheme.

Complete vehicle replacement sets (i.e. sets containing buses and trucks and trams) can use their own ID scheme. It's still recommended to follow these guidelines as much as possible. That way, for instance, a user can replace your ugly trams with trams from another tramset.

These guidelines are guidelines. There's absolutely no requirement to comply to these guidelines if you don't want your set to be compatible with other sets.

[FooBar]

Only thing is that English isn't my native language, so I need someone to check my spelling and correct grammatical errors.

I'm already doing that for George's ECS stuff so I guess one more wouldn't hurt. Mind you though, my services do not come cheap.

Most of the work is done already, see previous post and attachment. How much is it to check that for errors (once it's final, of course)?
I can offer a non-public release of the Dutch Tram Set once we get closer to completion.


@Everybody:
I posted a draft guideline above. Have a look at it and see whether you agree or not.

[Dave]

Just as a note that concerns the conduct of users - if they are only guidelines as you state, PLEASE don't start using them as reasons why someone MUST comply with the wills of another.

Otherwise, good work

[FooBar]

I just added a preface. I hope it now sounds less like a requirement and more like a guideline.

Otherwise, good work

I consider this to be true now, thanks

[wallyweb]

How much is it to check that for errors (once it's final, of course)?

Just do a cht: money 10000000000000000000000000000000000 on my bank account.

[FooBar]

Well, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Please give me you bank account number, IBAN number and BIC code and consider it done.

[wallyweb]

... don't start using them as reasons why someone MUST comply with the wills of another.

... because Dave Worley wishes to reserve for himself the privilege of being the only person who MUST comply with the wills of another.

Please give me you bank account number, IBAN number and BIC code and consider it done.

OK! OK! If you insist on getting personal, I'll accept cash ... but just this once!

By the way ... your guidelines post looks fine re spelling, grammar etc.

[FooBar]

If you insist on getting personal

Not at all. I only would have transferred $0.01 into your bank account, along with the description "cht: money 10000000000000000000000000000000000". I can't do that with cash.

Actually, I can do that with cash too. I fact, I just did. I printed it onto the back of a 20 euro bill
It's probably illegal to write stuff on banknotes, but who cares?
I really like to see the look on the face of the next TTD addict who gets his hands on that bill...

By the way ... your guidelines post looks fine re spelling, grammar etc.

That's good to hear! Seems I can write my share of English after all. Didn't even use a spell checker