Using competitors' tracks

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DonGoat
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Using competitors' tracks

Post by DonGoat »

So I've reached the limit of 240 trains, and think it sucks. My network is well designed, industry is booming, my trains are all very profitable and I have good ratings at my stations without having a queue of surplus trains - I've used my 240 trains wisely but I am a megalomaniac and I want more!

There are industries yet to receive transport - farms and mines that I've simply ignored up to now. A lot of the unserved industries are close to my network, they're just waiting for their own station and a few trains.

I really enjoy a network with total coverage, so I started thinking about perhaps taking over a competitor's company and running services to the other industries. The problem is, my network aready provides most of the required infrastructure, and to set up another network on the same island of similar capacity would be nearly impossible. At the same time, there are areas of my own network which have room for expansion, and it seems silly to waste this potential. What I wondered was this: is there any possibility of running trains on another company's lines? I could manage a competitor's company, build a depot on my original tracks and continue to expand my network. Of course, profit would go to the computer company but let's face it - when you've got 240 trains you're not worried about the money, are you?

I understand that it's open to abuse: there's nothing to stop you putting trains onto an enemy line and causing havoc - but who can be bothered doing this to the AI? They're so stupid that you don't need to help them fail - I generally find myself trying to help them succeed; straightening their tracks and upgrading their wooden rail bridges. I have no interest in sabotaging their lines with slow trains... if I want to sabotage their services I'll just manage the company and delete a few sections of track! Of course, equally, they could sabotage your services - but I doubt that it's within the capability of their thinking to use your tracks: they seem to have enough difficulty using their own.

Obviously, you could refine the idea by charging someone for using competitor's track, or requiring the companies to have their own stations - quite how it would affect the workings of station ratings I don't know.

I don't know how the game engine works, but I presume the things that would need sorting are:
o The ability to run on foreign track
o The ability to change frrom your own track to another company's

The things that makes me think that it might be possible are the old cheat of sticking a depot behind an enemy's station and launching a cheap steam train into the back of their service, and the fact that you've already made it so that when you change tracks from one type to another, old trains continue to run on inappropriate rails.

Anyway, that's my idea. Feel free to dismantle it but please be kind :)
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Post by Purno »

IIRC there once was a patch for OTTD for this. TTDPatch probably doesn't support it. :?:
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Post by gkirilov »

DonGoat,
if really need this the game for you is OTTD. Check the general section of OTTD and search for topic - Integrated Nightly build. The current version is 3 - (xxxx i3).
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Post by Oracle »

Try setting experimentalfeatures.cooperative on in ttdpatch.cfg in an alpha version. Then you can run competitors' trains on your tracks and stations, I believe. You'll want Aegir's AI-neutering patch for this to really work, though, which isn't quite finished.
Alternatively, you can just buy out AI companies which have trains and use them, but that breaks quite a few things, such as the vehicle list. Rob's done that in his savegame so he's the one to talk to if you want to get a lot of trains...
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Post by DonGoat »

Ahahaha! Your name "oracle" is well deserved!

Fantastic, I'll give that a go... I'd looked at experimental features in the wiki but not noticed the second page.
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Post by SHADOW-XIII »

you could also use longer trains, like 14 square length
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Post by The Irish »

miscmods.cooperative is really what you want.
Works quite well, even tough it is still more or less experimental. Works to run "foreign" trains on your network, but sometimes causes problems when doing the other way round, especially with PBS.
What you have to do is to make a branch off your tracks and the manage the AI and build a depot as the AI, build the train and assign your stations too it. It's quite a cool feature really.
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Post by krtaylor »

I would think with 240 trains, that ought to be enough to serve everything IF you use long-enough trains. In theory, no industry needs more than two trains, and often two industries of the same type are close enough together that one station can serve them both. Just multihead locos and build the stations 15 squares long.
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Post by Rob »

Have you checked my game krtaylor ?
240 trains just isn't enough, and I hardly transport passengers. :shock:
I have 491 trains running in my game at the moment, of which some 15 are in a depot waiting to be send to another part of the network.
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Post by krtaylor »

No I haven't, but I still bet you could include things. You could use one very long coal train to swing by all the coal mines on the way to the powerplant, not full-loading anywhere, just picking up what was available.
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Post by Rob »

Well I do have some long (14 sguares) oiltrains running, 72 of them to be presice..
They transport the oil produced by 12 oilplatforms from one side of the map to the other.
The two other platforms transport the oil directly by ship to the refinery.
I also have a 15 track factory station which is 7 squares long.
Two of those tracks are for transporting the produced goods out, and thirteen tracks for incoming raw materials, which is bearly enough to take it all.
I guess about 95 livestock trains, 95 grain trains and about 35 steeltrains are bringing in those raw materials.
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Post by DonGoat »

Well, I'm a good few years into sharing tracks and it seems to be working very well, so I thought I'd give you all some feedback. Basically, the network is running smoothly, and I'm not havin any problems with pathfinding or random pbs errors as a result of the different companies sharing tracks - even on the very busy stretch of rail around the east coast.

The basics are: I'm the red company, the yellow company is the AI opponent that's been around since the start of the game and the light blue company is an AI which I have managed. All the light blue trains are running on my tracks.

Things to note
- All but one of my stations are red; on a whim I built a light blue one: Henbourne Mines. It works perfectly well. I built some other light blue stations in cities, but had to convert them when I realised that it meant I couldn't have feeder bus services.

- Your Local Authority rating is based largely (I think) on the performance of your station, so if you're a company only using foreign stations in a town, your LA rating is unlikely to improve.

- Trains can call into competitors' depots but cannot be altered there.

- A train can only share orders with a train from the same company.

- The AI might occasionally spot a business opportunity somewhere else... Dynamite usualy fixes these foolish ideas.


Of course, what would be really useful is a faster way of changing from one company to another, perhaps with a keyboard shortcut.

Anyway, do have a look at the merged network - I think it's got real potential.

(Oh, and if anybody has a better system for 4-lane traffic management than my east coast then please tell me!)
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Post by DaleStan »

DonGoat wrote:Of course, what would be really useful is a faster way of changing from one company to another, perhaps with a keyboard shortcut.
I like that idea. Are <Ctrl-1> - <Ctrl-8> available? They seem like decent choices.
DonGoat wrote:(Oh, and if anybody has a better system for 4-lane traffic management than my east coast then please tell me!)
I haven't looked at the save, but are you using PBS'ed crossovers (see ugly ascii-art below) at regular intervals? That'll help keep things moving around slow/broken-down trains.

Code: Select all

|  |
x  x <-- 2-way signals (normal or presig exit)
|><|
^  ^ <-- 1-way signals (PBS or PBS presig entrance)
|  |
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Post by DonGoat »

DaleStan wrote:Are you using PBS'ed crossovers (see ugly ascii-art below) at regular intervals?
No, although the network I've got seems to be very efficient - more so than my previous efforts have been. I'm not being realistic; I've got breakdowns switched off, so It's the sorting of trains into tracks in the first place that I've focused on. The problem with the crossovers below is that they have a tendency to encourage stupid driving:

Code: Select all

A  B
|  |
x  x <-- 2-way signals (normal or presig exit)
|><|
^  ^ <-- 1-way signals (PBS or PBS presig entrance)
|  |
a  b
Very often I find trains queuing to go a>B, b>A etc, rather than gliding through on a>A, b>B. I guess that's something to do with the spacing of the signals.

Because I've got no breakdowns, and all my trains are the same speed, I only need to worry about junctions. The system I've gone for is for merging tracks onto the main line like this:

Code: Select all

  | |
  x x
 /|/|
^ ^ ^
| | |

Anyway, as I say - it's more efficient than I've managed before, so I wonder if it's as good as it gets.
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Post by DonGoat »

I knew the computer was capable of stuffing anything up...

So it's all working reasonably smoothly but - should you be unfortunate enough to set up a service for the computer company which isn't outrageously profitable - it has a habit of sending the train to a depot (even if the depot is miles away) and removing a few of your carriages... It's not a huge problem but it is a bit annoying.
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Post by Aegir »

DonGoat wrote:I knew the computer was capable of stuffing anything up...

So it's all working reasonably smoothly but - should you be unfortunate enough to set up a service for the computer company which isn't outrageously profitable - it has a habit of sending the train to a depot (even if the depot is miles away) and removing a few of your carriages... It's not a huge problem but it is a bit annoying.
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Post by DonGoat »

Cool. I shall look out for that in the next build. Presumably this means that your opponents would never start building at all; not even genuine opponents. Hard to decide what's a better set-up - occasional annoyances or no opposition at all.
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Post by DonGoat »

I've clearly got too much free time on my hands....

Is there anyway of getting TT to automatically join depots to the rails even if they're the wong company? When you build your own depot, the tracks go from being

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to

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|>D
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But building an competitor's depot alongside your rails just gives

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Which is the "close-but-no-cigar" of the construction world.

Building a rail depot by a monorail line causes the adjacent section of track to turn into rail: if this had a similar effect (ie turned the adjacent rail into foreign track) then that wouldn't cause problems, especially when the no-ai patch is ready. As it stands, there is a chance that the AI will erase your tracks if it doesn't think they're getting used, and in the middle of a major rail line this could be somewhat problematic!
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