Dutch stations set

[Ameecher]

Those red steps don't have enough contrast to be recognisable to me, the others look ok but the shading doesn't look much like steps but it wouldn't take much to fix that.

[ZxBiohazardZx]

also add some bikes, the ones on the big central stations are always filled with bikes, some are perma-parked there....

IMO if you add bikes, you also need to add people. IMO they fall into the same category. It'd look silly to have a station full of parked bikes, but no-one waiting on the platform.

you have never been @ Delft, DenHaag CS, Amsterdam CS, Rotterdam CS, Utrecht CS, or any other main station???

the ammount of permanently placed bikes on those stations is big. i even dare saying that the bike-standings are very full when nobody is on the platforms (think late night or just any weekend day where students/others dont use their bikes)

[Quast65]

That is true and well a couple more tiles should not be a big issue, however there is another big problem... Drawing them in a recognisable way. I gave it a shot and they look okay on their own (with blue background), but when placed in their surroundings they look very bad.
Maybe someone else wants to give it a shot?
Here are some things that can be used to work with:

bikesDSA.png (3.96 KiB) Viewed 2577 times

Furthermore, I decided to let work on more Metrostations rest for a while. I will focus now on getting the set ready for release. More stuff can always be added later. I think it is more important to get some playtesting underway. Keep an eye on this thread

[ZxBiohazardZx]

i agree making them visable is the harder part, mostly since they are black or boring colors, maybe try blue, red or other fun colors mixed with some black ones?

its pure eyecandy so it doesnt matter if its not 100% perfect for myself, love the work so far

[jor[D]1]

I recognize them as scooters now. It's not the worst attempt.

[Quast65]

Dutch Station Addition Set Version 0.1 released!
http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=64121
Please continue discussion about that set there.

[Purno]

Eh... I didn't realize this set would be an add-on, I kinda expected an update. So... now people need to install 2 GRFs?

[Quast65]

Yes, the new set already uses 177 station ID's.
If it also included the original ones I would be very close to the maximum of 255 (please correct me if I am wrong about that number) and I would like to keep some room for more new stuff

[Purno]

Ah, so due to the ID limit we'd someday need 2 GRFs anyways?

[Quast65]

Well, I'm not so sure anymore after reading this in the GRFSpecs:

The <Id> is an extended byte since TTDPatch 2.0.1 alpha 61, to support the definition of >255 sound effects.
In OpenTTD since r13482, extended IDs (up to 65535) can be used for vehicles as well. However there is currently a caveat that articulated parts must be below 128.

So does this apply to stations too? And, if so, does that mean that after ID

Code: Select all

FF

, I would get ID

Code: Select all

00 01

?

Then that would not be the limiting factor anymore for me to include the original Dutch Stations Set into a new GRF (Let's call it Dutch Stations Set v2 for example)

[peter1138]

Extended IDs are loaded but more station IDs higher than 255 is not supported (most likely only because it was never updated.)

[michael blunck]

Just don´t waste station-IDs. You can use the same ID for different graphics by using tile´s position, neighbourhood, date, etc. In general, only different station types need an own ID. In addition, this avoids cluttering the building menu.

regards
Michael

[Pyoro]

Well, this is clearly about eye-candy, so players IMO should be given as much control over what they want to build as possible Sure, doesn't mean you need to waste IDs, but ... for example with NewStations, it's as far as I'm aware not possible to build a single-tile empty platform without those ... whatever they're called. Wooden things to more safely walk over the tracks? You'll only get truly empty ones when building 2 or more. It's no big issue of course, just something I remembered ^^
I guess you need to weight what's most important...

[michael blunck]

[...] I guess you need to weight what's most important...

Well, 177 IDs is a lot (for an add-on!).

regards
Michael

[planetmaker]

Well, I'm not so sure anymore after reading this in the GRFSpecs:

The <Id> is an extended byte since TTDPatch 2.0.1 alpha 61, to support the definition of >255 sound effects.
In OpenTTD since r13482, extended IDs (up to 65535) can be used for vehicles as well. However there is currently a caveat that articulated parts must be below 128.

Action0 for Stations is quite clear:

Unlike vehicles, the new stations have no equivalent in TTD. The IDs are therefore free to be chosen and will in fact be allocated automatically by the patch. In action 0, you only specify IDs relative to the set, i.e. the ID of the first station type is 00, the second station type is 01 and so on. In total, each game can only have 255 station IDs for all active grf files. The only property you must set for each station ID is 08 (in addition to defining an action 3 for it), anything else can be left at the default. It must be the first property you set for each station ID, because the station ID is actually undefined until it has been assigned a class through property 08. Also, all station IDs must get their classes in the right order, starting from ID 00 onwards.

And the documentation was a bit outdated... there seems to be no global ID limit for stations anymore in OpenTTD; I amended the docs.

[Quast65]

Well, 177 IDs is a lot (for an add-on!).

Well I did draw a lot of new graphics and especially the single side and island tiles take up a lot of ID's
Maybe a few ID's could be removed by making some tiles aware of their environment, but I did want to prevent problems like this:
1=original Dutch Station Set
2=Addition Set

DSAset42.png (14.24 KiB) Viewed 2348 times

If you find the time and take a look at the set and if you can think of way's it could be coded better, please let me know.
But I think that only a few ID's could be removed and also I would like to know if using a smarter code would prevent it being used in older versions of OTTD. Because what is the reason why your set needs a fairly modern version of OTTD?

there seems to be no global ID limit for stations anymore in OpenTTD; I amended the docs

That is good to know! So that won't have the problems one has when using more that 255 object ID's. Is it also known from which version, or does it apply to all OTTD versions?

[Purno]

And the documentation was a bit outdated... there seems to be no global ID limit for stations anymore in OpenTTD; I amended the docs.

So, if I understand correctly, each GRF can only assign 255 IDs, but an unlimited amount of GRFs could be loaded in a game, and thus there's no real limit on how many IDs can be used?

I guess there isn't a way to let a GRF assign more than 255 IDs, like some trick to have one GRF-file act like two seperate GRFs each assigning 255 IDs?

Or, is it possible to code a GRF in a way it'll automatically download and activate another GRF?

I'm kinda looking for a way to take away the need to manually download two seperate GRF files.

[michael blunck]

[...] I would like to know if using a smarter code would prevent it being used in older versions of OTTD. Because what is the reason why your set needs a fairly modern version of OTTD?

Are you talking to me?

Because when updating NewStations to version 0.5, I stumbled over 3 bugs in OTTD (FS#5335 - station ground tiles and rail type sets, FS#5337 - custom/default foundations for stations, FS#5429 - random triggers for stations).

Apart from those, there haven´t been any new features for stations since years.

regards
Michael

[Quast65]

[...] I would like to know if using a smarter code would prevent it being used in older versions of OTTD. Because what is the reason why your set needs a fairly modern version of OTTD?

Are you talking to me?

Because when updating NewStations to version 0.5, I stumbled over 3 bugs in OTTD (FS#5335 - station ground tiles and rail type sets, FS#5337 - custom/default foundations for stations, FS#5429 - random triggers for stations).

Apart from those, there haven´t been any new features for stations since years.

regards
Michael

Yes, sorry for not including your name in the quote.
Ok, that clears it up. I thought that it had something to do with how singlesided/island stationtiles can appear. Maybe that they could appear by using an advanced awareness of surroundings. By the way, are there even any singlesided/island graphics in NewStations? I may have been confused by the way the tiles look in the menu. I thought I couldn't get them because I used an older version of OpenTTD.

If there aren't any singlesided/island tiles in NewStations, then I'll try to explain why there are so many ID's needed in my GRF.
They are made using a simple graphics trick. I leave one of the two platforms transparent. But that does mean that for each "normal" tile to be converted, that you need to make three new ones.
One with visible platform on the front, one with visible platform on the back and one for the island-tile (you can't get the island tile by just dragging it to 2x1. The way normal platforms are placed. You'll still get a platform at one of the outer sides)
So that means that I already needed roughly 3x20=60 ID's to transform the original single tiles.
then I also converted some other tiles and complete stations and added a lot more stuff. So that's why it ran up so fast to 177.

@Purno, what is the problem with having to place two GRF's?

[Purno]

@Purno, what is the problem with having to place two GRF's?

It's more complicated than having one GRF.

So, IMO, if it can be avoided, it should.