Dutch Trainset v2.0

[FooBar]

We were talking about the red/white livery In this picture I can't find any DB logo, while it is present in the image Voyager One has (the ICL-DB-B).

You're right. I guess it's stickered over there.

In this picture there is still a logo though: http://www.nicospilt.com/anderen/JS20050713_548.JPG

Could you tell me what im doing wrong? I don't see my mistake?

On one side of the train, the door should be on the left. On the other side of the train on the right.
In at least both side views they're on the left. What it should be from left to right:
- (invisible)
- door on left (correct)
- door on left (correct)
- door on left (wrong)
- (invisible)
- door on right (wrong)
- door on right (wrong)
- door on right (correct)

The complete train itself, in driving direction, is: front-powerpack-middle-back.
The doors of front and back are closest to the nose of each part.
The doors of the middle part are furthest from the powerpack.
You can see that more or less in this picture: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:Sp ... 9-2008.jpg. Note that the train is actually driving backwards in this picture, which you can tell by the direction of the pantograph.

Or you put both versions in the game, Arrivia 1 and Arrivia 2

No, that's not going to happen

[Voyager One]

Here's a picture with the DB logo: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:ICB1.JPG
Dunno what station that is, but it's clearly behind a 1700/1800 locomotive.

Myself I can't find any pictures without the logo, but I imagine they must have stickered that over at some point.

We were talking about the red/white livery In this picture I can't find any DB logo, while it is present in the image Voyager One has (the ICL-DB-B).

2007_0027%20tn2.jpg (57.14 KiB) Viewed 5012 times

From here:
http://www.martijnhaman.nl/

[STT Transport]

Could you tell me what im doing wrong? I don't see my mistake?

On one side of the train, the door should be on the left. On the other side of the train on the right.
In at least both side views they're on the left. What it should be from left to right:
- (invisible)
- door on left (correct)
- door on left (correct)
- door on left (wrong)
- (invisible)
- door on right (wrong)
- door on right (wrong)
- door on right (correct)

Thanks, now i see my mistake (strange that some times people must tell you what you doing wrong before you see it).

-------

And i've put it in the list (and fixed the door issues). I've only changed the Veolia Livery.

GTW.png (28.15 KiB) Viewed 1646 times

[jor[D]1]

I think i found a bug. The ICE3 only goes 221km/h

[Purno]

Here's a picture with the DB logo: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:ICB1.JPG
Dunno what station that is, but it's clearly behind a 1700/1800 locomotive.

That's the international train from Schiphol to Berlin, photographed at Amersfoort.

[Eddi]

I think i found a bug. The ICE3 only goes 221km/h

That's a feature. While in DC-land (i.e. the Netherlands) the ICE3 has a lower top speed than while in AC-land (i.e. Germany). Since this is the Dutch Set, the ICE3 obviously gets the dutch speed limit.

[jor[D]1]

Here's a picture with the DB logo: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:ICB1.JPG
Dunno what station that is, but it's clearly behind a 1700/1800 locomotive.

That's the international train from Schiphol to Berlin, photographed at Amersfoort.

Are you sure those blue ones were used in the berlin train in 2007

I think i found a bug. The ICE3 only goes 221km/h

That's a feature. While in DC-land (i.e. the Netherlands) the ICE3 has a lower top speed than while in AC-land (i.e. Germany). Since this is the Dutch Set, the ICE3 obviously gets the dutch speed limit.

Hmm. V250 goes 250km/h in set, on DC it probably also runs slower.

would be time for a dutch track GRF. (can include, caternary, signals, and different speeds. i.e. Highspeed line(300km/h), classical line(80-140km/h), upgraded line(160km/h), station/yard(40km/h).

[Transportman]

I think i found a bug. The ICE3 only goes 221km/h

That's a feature. While in DC-land (i.e. the Netherlands) the ICE3 has a lower top speed than while in AC-land (i.e. Germany). Since this is the Dutch Set, the ICE3 obviously gets the dutch speed limit.

Hmm. V250 goes 250km/h in set, on DC it probably also runs slower.

would be time for a dutch track GRF. (can include, caternary, signals, and different speeds. i.e. Highspeed line(300km/h), classical line(80-140km/h), upgraded line(160km/h), station/yard(40km/h).

The 220 km/h speed limit for the ICE3 is due to the properties of the ICE3. It has only the systems to go 220 km/h with DC, while on AC it can go 330 km/h. However, the HSL-Zuid (the high speed tracks between Amsterdam and Belgian border) is AC, so in that respect the ICE3 should also be able to go 330 km/h because of the AC on the HSL-Zuid. In that case it will be the fastest realistic train in the set.

[FooBar]

Indeed only a complementary track set would allow to implement this difference properly. IMO it needs only four track types:
- unelectrified, max 140 km/h
- 1.5 kV DC overhead, max 160 km/h
- 750 V DC third rail, max 100 km/h
- 25 kV AC overhead, max 300 km/h
Local speed limits should not be implemented via track type, but rather via train orders.

Without such a track set, as it stands now the ICE will never be used on AC, so it only makes sense to limit it to 220 km/h. The V250 will only be used on AC (except at stations and such), so that can have its top speed of 250 km/h.

[Transportman]

Indeed only a complementary track set would allow to implement this difference properly. IMO it needs only four track types:
- unelectrified, max 140 km/h
- 1.5 kV DC overhead, max 160 km/h
- 750 V DC third rail, max 100 km/h
- 25 kV AC overhead, max 300 km/h
Local speed limits should not be implemented via track type, but rather via train orders.

Without such a track set, as it stands now the ICE will never be used on AC, so it only makes sense to limit it to 220 km/h. The V250 will only be used on AC (except at stations and such), so that can have its top speed of 250 km/h.

You forgot Metro

It shouldn't be to difficult to code a track set using NML when I look at the GRFSpecs. That said, I failed miserably when I tried to get my own train in OpenTTD (not enough willpower to actually get it working, it compiled but didn't show up and after a few tries I gave up)... But I am willing to give NML another shot and try to code such a set. (No, don't send me any graphics or whatsoever, I'm just typing this more or less impulsively, so don't know anything whether I will actually do it, licensing and so on, so please give me some time to actually think about it )

[Rubidium]

You forgot Metro

More importantly he forgot the Hanzelijn. Design speed: 200 km/h, 1.5kV DC (prepared for 25kV AC). For those interested in the actual maximum speed 'classes' of tracks and voltages of ProRail and KeyRail's tracks, see some ProRail documentation (specifically page 157 and 159).

[Eddi]

the ToE set once wanted to provide railtypes for different voltages... don't know whether anything ever came from that thought...

it's probably difficult to provide proper gameplay reasons to provide each of them...

[FooBar]

You forgot Metro

How's that different from "750 V DC third rail, max 100 km/h"?

It's very easy to code a thing like that. Drawing the graphics for the HSL (and the Hanzelijn) will be the hardest part. But if you want to give the code a go, you can also start by defining new tracks without new graphics. License is easy: GPLv2 and higher. But for starters you may want to look at the "new generic track label definitions", to see what the status is on that. If that's actually taking shape, we may want to use that as a standard.

it's probably difficult to provide proper gameplay reasons to provide each of them...

If one doesn't go wild on 16 different options and combines it with a train set, it can work. More expensive tracks can then give certain trains higher speed and more power. This will allow the train to make more profit. So as long as it's a handful of different options, it's not too hard for the players to use it.


In other news:
There will be NO purchase sprites that continue behind the text, see FS#5025.
As a result, we can now start making our final purchase sprites. I've written a spec for that: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/3795

Given these instructions and the templates, anyone can help out making the purchase menu sprites. If you feel that's something you can do, then please go ahead!

To let others know you're working on something, create a new issue at the tracker (feature tracker, select "Purchase menu graphics" for the issue category) stating what you'll be doing. Once you have the sprites made, upload them to the same issue. You can put multiple sprites in a zip to prevent having to select all files manually. You may also post your sprites in this topic if you want to show them to others for some reason. But I'll not be gathering sprites from here; given the rate of posts here I can impossibly keep up with that!

[Voyager One]

purchase sprites

Do you need me to remake all my previous purchase sprites or do you have it already covered?

[Transportman]

You forgot Metro

How's that different from "750 V DC third rail, max 100 km/h"?

It's very easy to code a thing like that. Drawing the graphics for the HSL (and the Hanzelijn) will be the hardest part. But if you want to give the code a go, you can also start by defining new tracks without new graphics. License is easy: GPLv2 and higher. But for starters you may want to look at the "new generic track label definitions", to see what the status is on that. If that's actually taking shape, we may want to use that as a standard.

It became something different when I started reading things wrong

The new generic track label definitions in Google only gave me the NuTracks development thread pages 42-44, but that discussion seems to have stopped 2 months ago without anything if I see correctly. Or do you mean something different? If you don't want to clutter this topic too much with this discussion, just send me a PM.

[jor[D]1]

I think we go a bit offtopic. About track sets.

But i'm willing to try to create a dutch track set. I coded a loco in NML and it seemed easy. One question remains for me. Is it possible to give different rail types differten caternary.

You could base a trackset on the B1-B7 and HSL caternary systems. They all got different voltage/speeds. Maybe it is even possible to make 1500V DC and 25kV AC and only let trains which allow those voltage to run on it??

[FooBar]

Do you need me to remake all my previous purchase sprites or do you have it already covered?

If you can make new purchase sprites like that, that will be more than enough.
Let's not waste your resources on something simple like making new purchase sprites, I believe there are lots of other people out there who can help with that. As it's nothing more than simple copy/paste/save.

Or do you mean something different?

Yeah, I believe it may have been discussed in the French set topic. But unfortunately I can't remember
It's certainly not something that is set in stone yet. Otherwise it would have been on the wiki.
EDIT: no, it was discussed in the NuTracks thread. This will take you somewhere to the middle of the discussion: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php? ... &start=850

Is it possible to give different rail types differten caternary.

Yes, just not different signals.

Maybe it is even possible to make 1500V DC and 25kV AC and only let trains which allow those voltage to run on it??

In theory that is possible. Whether it's practical is a different matter, but I guess there can be a parameter or a "do not load this tracks set if you don't want this behaviour" sort of setting. For people who just want to play with trains

[jor[D]1]

Is it possible to give different rail types differten caternary.

Yes, just not different signals.

Great. So it is possible to make B1 - B8, betuwe route and HSL track

[Voyager One]

If you can make new purchase sprites like that, that will be more than enough.

OK, no problem.

Now, suggestions please... Is this looking more/less OK (roundness of the nose mostly)?

[FooBar]

I think so. The side windows of the 'blob' may be a bit bigger though, e.g.: http://www.flickr.com/photos/groen47/3234028109/

This one has headlights that stick out, would you be able to replicate that as well?