OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

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OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by lonwolf89 »

Well, just dropped by to land a suggestion / proposal.
First of all, i'm a c++ programmer myself, a little bit too young maybe, but with 4 developed 3d games using the same open source, free and cool engine + physx and a lot of other libs/ sdks.
I've been occasionally playing TTD whenever i had the mood and like it very much. After a quick forum search, nothing like this popped out for a stand alone sequel so i'm making a new thread.
I have a decent experience with coding and took a look on the source code.
If there's anyone interested porting this game and adding new features in a 3d environment isn't that hard (as porting it to XNA C# as suggested by someone else). Basically you can reuse much of the code, and replace the sprites with 3d meshes and changing the building system a bit to fit a more realistic environment.

The team working on OTTD is pretty big and i see you are really not interested in building something from scratch again (this isn't really a case) and you've done an outstanding job so far.
My question and proposal: are there any coders / persons willing to code / model / script materials, cgs, design and etc that would like to start a project TT 3D? :) i would be willing to share everything i know so we could bring this game in the tops again as a refined version.

At the moment i will have a lot of free time to work on it and will probably have since i'm not being part of any projects for now and would enjoy working on this.

As all of you know, working alone isn't time efficient and it will take ages for me to single code and model something like this.

If everyone is interested in developing the game as it is right now (same graphics and sources) let me know so i can chill with this idea.

So, waiting for some replies :)
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by planetmaker »

Well, 3D OpenTTD would be a completely different game, but you know that yourself :-) There are uncounted sprites for OpenTTD, and to replace them all is a hercules-task. As OpenTTD is GPL, its code can, of course, be re-used in any other GPL project. There's the transport empire project (also found in this forum). I'm not sure how it handles this stuff, but that's pretty much in the early development stages and might need that more than it sounds feasable to extend OpenTTD in that direction. Unless you find a solution what to do with the existing 2D sprites...
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by lonwolf89 »

Not really. But there are countless 3d modelers out there, and making a model replaces countless sprites, since the effects can be done with easy-made particle systems, and moving around and other things is just code-related not directly graphic. It's really not that hard actually, just someone (or more) creative that knows how to model and texture some trains, wagons, cars - low poly of course, wasn't thinking of a HD version, just a simple 3d remake. That's not the biggest problem, but people willing to start working on this.

[edit]
Gonna check with the Transport Empire team, thanks for the hint, seems they already implemented some basic features in the engine i was thinking of proposing.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by CommanderZ »

lonwolf89 wrote:Not really. But there are countless 3d modelers out there, and making a model replaces countless sprites, since the effects can be done with easy-made particle systems, and moving around and other things is just code-related not directly graphic. It's really not that hard actually, just someone (or more) creative that knows how to model and texture some trains, wagons, cars - low poly of course, wasn't thinking of a HD version, just a simple 3d remake. That's not the biggest problem, but people willing to start working on this.

[edit]
Gonna check with the Transport Empire team, thanks for the hint, seems they already implemented some basic features in the engine i was thinking of proposing.
But OTTD is a very complex game consisting of almost 300 000 lines of code. And I can't think of a single feature you could reuse for a 3D project. And if it lacked any major features, I doubt you would make OTTD fans play your game.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by petert »

planetmaker wrote:There are uncounted sprites for OpenTTD, and to replace them all is a hercules-task. As OpenTTD is GPL, its code can, of course, be re-used in any other GPL project.
OpenGFX was a massive project, but it's being done. Anyone with a love for OpenTTD and some common sense with graphics and coding could start on the project, and people can join.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by lonwolf89 »

Well it seems the Transport Empire project is somewhat dead (at least looking at the forum post dates for most of them).
And I can't think of a single feature you could reuse for a 3D project.
Well, most of the algorithms concerning economy, transport system (thats more than 60% of the game) and some scripting with animations can be reused. Consider you take the OpenTTD source code, and everywhere you have animations for vehicles (sprites) you replace with the 3d model creation, optionally adding physics, effects using the engine.

The hardest part in my opinion is teraforming and the building system since it needs a bit of change to make it more realistic. But that's not reusing - it's improving and making something more realistic.

I'm willing to start a basic open source platform for this game (as Transport Empire already has, but only that) and see what we can do.

About reusing, only the game system and algorithms, except the building tools which need to be redesigned for this environment.

I could post a screenshot with my last basic platform i made for a RPG game. But i'm lacking modelers and more coders, so i can't do it myself. just implemented some basic features in it so i can prove i know what i'm doing. (also made another rpg released in an alpha version and that game had everything an rpg needs built from scratch and almost alone). So that's not the problem either :) just peeps for it.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by Chrill »

Did they not make a 3d version of Transport Tycoon for the PlayStation?
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by Rubidium »

I think the people (with coding skills) interested in OpenTTD are primarily interested in it because of the 'old' feel. Making it 3D and "fixing the scale" removes basically all links with TTD and would mean you have to trash most of the game engine (bye bye vehicle movement and pathfinding code). Same holds, likely, for the GUI.
That leaves an awfully small part of OpenTTD for you to reuse, which might not even be worth the effort anymore.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by Terkhen »

If you plan to reuse OpenTTD code, I suggest that you start easier. Don't try to remove the tile-based gameplay until you have a working 3D mode with ground tiles replaced by 3D textures and all game objects with 3D models. Once that you have that working, you can start changing the gameplay.

That said, I think that you are better starting a new project from scratch. OpenTTD code is made with tiles and sprites in mind, and you will run into problems everywhere and probably you will end changing it anyways. Even if you manage to get an OpenTTD based 3D game working, I don't see any advantages on reusing code given that both games can't have any compatible features between them. I doubt that support for loading "tiled savegames" is worth the effort, multiplayer compatibility is completely out, and you can't use the concept of NewGRF without turning it into something completely incompatible.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by Eddi »

I strongly believe your 3D enthusiasm is better spent on a new game, like Transport Empire, instead of completely revamping a game like OpenTTD with all its weird limitations. Not only would you have to replace all game graphics, there are a large number of newgrfs which also would be completely incompatible with any 3D system.

then there is the tile structure, the map array and a large part of all internal data structures depending on these... which make no sense in a true 3D game.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by lonwolf89 »

yes i realized that. will probably start a new one like TE and hope some enthusiasts will help. Still thinking about it for the moment. I wasn't thinking of using most of the OTTD src, but just as a hint, that will be very similar in gameplay and strategies (should've named it TT 3D then :P )
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by lonwolf89 »

bye bye vehicle movement and pathfinding code
why's that? just because you scale it in 3d, you don't thrash the ideas of those algorithms. on the contrary. The vehicles behavior will remain the same - with just some tweaks for the movement in the new environment, adding forces etc.
Last edited by lonwolf89 on 09 Sep 2009 20:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by planetmaker »

though transport empire is a bit inactive, it definitely might be worth to build upon. The coder is still around afaik.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by Rubidium »

lonwolf89 wrote:
bye bye vehicle movement and pathfinding code
why's that? just because you scale it in 3d, you don't thrash the ideas of those algorithms. on the contrary. The vehicles behavior will remain the same - with just some tweaks for the movement in the new environment, adding forces etc.
So you're going to keep the sharp 45 degree (and even 90 degree) corners/cornering? You're not going to smooth it out in some way? You're going to keep the current slopes? You're going to keep the 4 angles rail can be laid in? The 2 angles road/canals can be laid in? Doesn't sound very 3D-ish to me. Anyhow, changing any of those things will require massive work of the vehicle movement and pathfinding code. The more you want to go to 'true' 3D, the more you're going to have to change. When you want everything, you're likely much better off writing stuff from scratch.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by lonwolf89 »

point taken. but changing the sharp 45 / 90 degree turns with smooth 3d blocks shouldn't alter the algorithms idea should it? i didn't got the chance to dig into those but i'm not referring to using the openttd code as it is in a new project. just keep some algorithms up and change the code to match the new environment. if this can't be done, a start-from-scratch it is.

the goal is to have the same gameplay. Nevertheless after i'm done with the base program i will post a thread under general (or other forum topic?) and upload my work and if someone is interested in joining, the sources will be available to play with and hopefully we're not going to be only 2 of us working on it.

Thank you all for the replies, glad to see so many people active around and it has been a pleasure.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by Eddi »

they don't invalidate the algorithms, but they make the implementation of these algorithms pretty much obsolete, which build heavily on these limitations.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by Kogut »

3D is very bad idea. I prefer present view. But I think about rotation.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by SwissFan91 »

As for 3D, I think it would be great for say a traincab view, but not for construction itself. Sorry if this is mentioned above, I have no time to read it all thoroughly.
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by lonwolf89 »

Of course. That takes only a few lines of code in Ogre to do :) attach the camera to a vehicle node, and while it's moving, the camera will move along.

By the way, got a working Terrain sculpting tool ready - alter the terrain in a realistic manner, dynamic texturing, saving and loading a modified terrain . After i wrap things up and write some other important classes it should be ready for a railroad building tool. I have a couple of ideas for it, and for the first implementation it won't have any limitations, so basically you can build what i'd always wanted in ttd: elevated tracks. But that should take more than 1 day since i need to model some railroad tracks. Could use a 3d modeler by now for this simple task :D
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Re: OTTD 3d. Sounds nice? if you like the idea, take a look.

Post by Zephyris »

I would strongly advise against "modelling" rail, unless you mean a basic low poly elevated rail section... I've attached some rail textures (ambient, diffuse, normal, bump and ambient/diffuse combined. Only 256x256px but thats probably all you will need. They are done to a scale of approx 12m per 256px, ie. 12m per square if the texture is used at 1 per square and should tile seamlessly.

*edit* Just tried them with some basic GSGL shaders and they look a bit rubbish, though a worthy place-holder for now...
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