Canadian Trains Set [v1.0 now available] ...

[wallyweb]

Also, this set is ruined now.

Naw ... this set isn't ruined. It's the same set it used to be. The trains and wagons have not changed. They all work as before. What is ruined is your ability to import this set into another environment, where there may be incompatibilities that you would then be complaining about and asking this set's authors to fix to your standards. It is possible, you know, that OzTransLtd merely wants to avoid having to answer all your questions which would be sure to arise when you use this set in an environment it was not intended for. The mere fact that you are complaining so loudly about this set no longer supporting the engine pool environment is a testament to its greatness.

[OzTrans]

... base costs, custom track systems and problems with them ...

The last GRF set loaded, that modifies/sets custom base costs or custom rail track systems dictates to every other set what base costs etc apply for a game. As a result you get problems with other sets, costs are either too low or too high. As for track systems, you may have your Shinkansen run on narrow gauge tracks.

That needs to be addressed for a working solution.

... your reaction of the engine pool wasn't timed well, it is still in development and not available in stable releases, you make it now harder to test the feature with your set. ...

Your are right the timing has been awful. Picture this ...

Microsoft releases a new operating system without giving software developers the chance to test their own ware on it. I would not want to be in Bill Gates shoes on that day.

I wasn't given the chance to evaluate the CanSet swimming in the pool before the 'feature' was released; that is why we are having all these problems now. If you are a nightly player, then don't expect GRF sets to work in this situation. We have to catch up first.

Thank god, the stable releases (v0.6.0 and v0.6.1) do not include the engine pool. Anybody playing this releases have nothing to complain about, everything works as intended.

If you consider yourself a tester for OpenTTD nightlies, then you could always apply for a special unrestricted special release of the CanSet, so you can evaluate it against new features and if found wanting, we can then fix issues. However, this option would not be available to newer, less experienced players or ratbags.

... the Empty Train of LA is very nice for eyecandy games ...

I agree, it is a nice touch; however, you would not pull any Canadian wagons out the depot, they'd resist following you, because the 'loco' is not Canadian. Make a suggestion and we may consider an 'invisible' shunter.

... I'd like to see a larger Canadian set personally ...

OpenTTD Devs aren't very good sales people; they didn't tell us that we could have more than 116 train vehicles by ID. TTDPatch does not allow (yet ?) to start a game earlier than 1921; so you could start thinking about those pre-1921 vehicles you wanted. We could include those for OpenTTD gamers, but not in v0.3, rather directly in v0.5 (and not as an add-on pack).

... I've followed the whole discussion regarding the engine pool until now, and I can understand your negative feelings towards the current implementation of it because of the troubles for your set involved. ...

Don't worry to much ... I could of course stage a disappearing act and be done with, but that would not be fair to all those players that accept what we dish out and appreciate our work.

...

If players have issues, problems or suggestions, we do listen and we try to fix or implement them, sometimes this takes a long time. But, as far as the CanSet is concerned; it is me who calls the shots and I alone make the decisions what (when and how) goes into that set, but I do take any input I get into account. If you don't like that, then there are plenty of other sets around you can play with. Want to be a ratbag and continue arguing your points about something you don't like then they are unlikely to be dealt with. They go into the 'too-hard-basket'.

The whole point is; I don't want to see any bug reports and complaints about issues related to that engine pool. That is why the set is restricted currently and these restrictions will be relaxed when solutions have been found.

If someone doesn't like that, then there is always the disappearing act for me to consider ...

... merely wants to avoid having to answer all your questions which would be sure to arise when you use this set in an environment it was not intended for. The mere fact that you are complaining so loudly about this set no longer supporting the engine pool environment is a testament to its greatness. ...

Thank you, I've got nothing more to add ...

[peter1138]

I wasn't given the chance to evaluate the CanSet swimming in the pool before the 'feature' was released; that is why we are having all these problems now.

And it is still not released. You've still got the chance before it is released when 0.7.0 comes around.

[eis_os]

Back on track about solutions.

GRF Authors tell us they create Vehicle Sets, ok, but why do they change the economy too? * [...]
* I know why the grf authors do it, but please think about it, it is still wrong, the difficult setting is not a grf setting but a players setting... I know specially Michael has an different opinion about it... still my standpoint is: TTD(Patch is not an simulator, it's the players decision how hard a game should be...

Well, I´m doing it simply because with original TTD base costs I cannot get "realistic" purchase prices for engines and wagons. Especially the base cost for wagons/coaches is ridiculously low. But o/c, the player is able to change the net prices by setting the difficulty level as usual.

What change/feature would the DBSet, CanSet, BrSet * need to get a common sense on prices? (Change the multiplier size to be bigger or different measurements).
I think we should collect the base cost and multipliers for say every 20 years for each set in a new thread.
This way we get a price graph for each set and see how we can fit all together. (and see if it would be possible at all, if not we could still think how the eu sets could at least share cargo wagons as example)

The vehicle .grf could have a class [...] Then rolling stock could only be bought and used between vehicles in the same class.
Perhaps also include a flag in the Misc settings of the vehicle to indicate whether cross-Class usage is allowed.

These are good suggestions.

Yes and no, first we need to get the stats right, then we can think about better sorting, it doesn't help if we can sort the stuff better but still not be able to have working sets. A dword size label should be easy to add...

[michael blunck]

Oskar,

shouldn´t we keep further discussion about problems developed by OTTDs "multipool" feature in that other thread in the OTTD section?

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=37812

If yes, please move your post there, if not, I´ll answer here, though.

regards
Michael

[eis_os]

This is a more grf centric problem, I wish we would use my new topic here http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=37870.
The engine pool thread should be used for the OTTD centric solution for the GUI, bug reports, not for trying to sync a spec or discussion internals of GRF.

Note: We don't necessary need the concepts of Engine pools so certain aspects work in TTDPatch.

[OzTrans]

And it is still not released. You've still got the chance before it is released when 0.7.0 comes around.

When looking from a stable release point of view ... unfortunately we have nightlies to deal with too. Stay tuned for an announcement in a few days ...

...

I'll answer in your thread ...

[Ammler]

If you consider yourself a tester for OpenTTD nightlies, then you could always apply for a special unrestricted special release of the CanSet, so you can evaluate it against new features and if found wanting, we can then fix issues. However, this option would not be available to newer, less experienced players or ratbags.

Well, it would also be easy to remove/skip that sprite self, but I am speaking for the community #openttdcoop, and there we can't play with unofficial releases. We are something like the multiplayer guinea pigs

But I am sure, you all will find a good solution.

Greets
Ammler

[andythenorth]

Save the game on every January 1 (or thereabouts); keep all these saves but send me saves after each decade (every 10 years) together with a copy of openttd.cfg.

Hi Oz, am starting this new game now.

Got an OTTD-related bug report for you: 0 forests are being created in the Arctic climate.

I have replicated this with parameter 2 set to 0, 12, 13, 15. No other new industry grfs are active. I have tried lowering the snowline and reducing the terrain roughess. OTTD 0.6.1 (RC1), CanSet v0.3e.

Forests are created as expected in the Temperate climate.

cheers,

Andy

[OzTrans]

... But I am sure, you all will find a good solution.

We are working on it ...

... Got an OTTD-related bug report for you: 0 forests are being created in the Arctic climate.

I'm not ruling out, that the CanSet is at fault, but ...

a] the wood/paper chain is not modified in the arctic climate, even if you specify the paper industry parameter.
b] the problem occurs in both v0.6.1 and v0.7 nightlies.
c] turning off the CanSet won't fix it, but turning off all sets that set variable snowlines fixes it.

Are forest industries in arctic placed only above the snowline ?

I would say it is an OpenTTD bug with the variable snowline feature, arctic forest industries are not created if this feature is enabled (any set that has it, NACity, CanStn, CanSet ...).

Does that help ?

[planetmaker]

Are forest industries in arctic placed only above the snowline ?

They are. That in turn may lead to non being generated, if sufficiently smooth and flat terrain is chosen.

[OzTrans]

... forest industry generation ...

Any combination of GRF sets, hilliness and snowline settings results in no forest industries generated, if one of the GRF sets enables seasonally variable snowlines; otherwise there are no problems.

[CaHbKo]

Why it does not support multiple NewGRF engine sets?

EDIT:

I dont know why, but in my OTTD forests are generating in Arctic climate

[Draakon]

Why it does not support multiple NewGRF engine sets?

Above replays have the answer. And use v0.3d or older to use with other engine sets.

[OzTrans]

... but in my OTTD forests are generating in Arctic climate.

Because, you haven't enabled seasonally variable snowlines ... a feature of CanSet, CanStn and/or NACity ...

[Two5Kid]

Can anyone relocate me to the v0.3d of the Canadian Set? It has been replaced by v0.3e on the first page.

[Draakon]

Can anyone relocate me to the v0.3d of the Canadian Set? It has been replaced by v0.3e on the first page.

I have v0.3c. Interested?

[XeryusTC]

Can anyone relocate me to the v0.3d of the Canadian Set? It has been replaced by v0.3e on the first page.

#openttdcoop NewGRF package.

[DanMacK]

I'll add 0.3d back to the download page when I get home, in the meantime, you can get it (and other earlier versions) HERE

[Two5Kid]

Thanks draakon, DanMack and XeryusTC for helping out. Got the version I wanted. Thank you very much!