German translation

[planetmaker]

I *think* I changed them all this morning. But they're not in the svn right now.

[Roujin]

Hey pm, sorry but I think you got some of them confused... (not that it matters right now, for both female and plural the string this is all about will result in "... akzeptiert keine XY mehr")
But assuming the string
"{STATION} akzeptiert kein{G "en" "e" "" "e"} {STRING} mehr"
was instead something like
"{STRING} w{G "ird" "ird" "ird" "erden"} von {STATION} nicht mehr akzeptiert"
then suddenly it does make a difference if a cargo is defined as female or plural. You can insert each cargo into this sentence to see if it has to be plural or female.

so:

Code: Select all

       7 -STR_CARGO_PLURAL_COAL                                           :{G=w}Kohle
       8 +STR_CARGO_PLURAL_COAL                                           :{G=p}Kohle

Kohle = female

Code: Select all

      19 +STR_CARGO_PLURAL_COLA                                           :{G=p}Cola

Cola = female

[planetmaker]

You're right, Roujin. Thank you.

[planetmaker]

With the help of the new WT3 and especially the ease of the search implemented there things come easier to attention which would be burried before.

Schiene vs. Gleis
When should which word be used and why and why not?

Currently (as of todays commit to trunk prior the nightly compile at least), it will be such, that the Strings refer to "Gleis", if the meaning of track is chosen. Of course, the word "Schienenfahrzeug" still persist. There's no such thing as "Gleisfahrzeug"

I've the feeling there are small semantical differences, but I cannot quite point my finger to it: Gleis = track as a whole, no matter the way it is constructed; Schiene = one track, e.g. a normal rail has two "Schienen", one for the left, one for the right wheels of the vehicles, while a monorail vehicle obviously only utilizes one "Schiene".

[FHS]

Id say Schiene, since Gleis means Platform to me

[dihedral]

just that openttd does not (yet) differentiate between the different platforms of a station
+ there still is the german word 'Platform' and 'Bahnsteig'

[Auge]

Hallo

Schiene vs. Gleis

Currently (as of todays commit to trunk prior the nightly compile at least), it will be such, that the Strings refer to "Gleis", if the meaning of track is chosen. Of course, the word "Schienenfahrzeug" still persist. There's no such thing as "Gleisfahrzeug"

The word "Gleisfahrzeug" is known to me, to google too. But the everyday speech knows "Schienenfahrzeug" instead "Gleisfahrzeug". That's IMHO also o.k. for the game. Are there many locations, where "Schiene" is in use (I remember not a single one)?

I've the feeling there are small semantical differences, but I cannot quite point my finger to it: Gleis = track as a whole, no matter the way it is constructed; Schiene = one track, e.g. a normal rail has two "Schienen", one for the left, one for the right wheels of the vehicles, ...

I would use the words in the same way.

... while a monorail vehicle obviously only utilizes one "Schiene".

A monorail is an "Einschienenbahn", that's self-explanatory at this point (and furthermore a wordly translation (except annex "bahn").

Tschö, Auge

[Eddi]

Schiene vs. Gleis
When should which word be used and why and why not?

i don't really know what all the fuzz is about, in most places the two can be used interchangably

as a rule of thumb:
Gleis = track
Schiene = rail

In some cases, Gleis can mean platform (Bahnsteig)

[Roujin]

Hi guys, I just joined you on WT3

I browsed through the strings and noted that the issue already mentioned in this thread back here was never fixed.
So... any new suggestions?

I think it's not translatable 1:1, so we might just come up with something new. An idea I had is picking a category from here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Bahnhof
For example "{STRING} Anschlussbahnhof", or just "{STRING} Anschluss". From the wikipedia page above, this fits best imo, but maybe you have another favorite? edit: Vorbahnhof might also be a nice choice.

Another possibility is taking something from MB's list here that's not already in the game. "Ort", "Dorf"?
"Haltepunkt" (Hp in his post) is already covered with "Halt" I think. Maybe we should rename "Halt" to "Haltepunkt", I think I'll do this right away. Any complaints?).

Third and last possibility I can think of: Make up something completely new. My proposal (going somewhat with DaleStan's description of what kind of station an "exchange" is): "Außen"


Your opinions, gentlemen?

[planetmaker]

Well... I had for a short time renamed it "Stadion", I think. The feedback wasn't that good then. But personally I don't mind any change there Go right ahead

Indeed, "Vorbahnhof" or maybe even "Betriebsbahnhof"?

[Roujin]

Well... I had for a short time renamed it "Stadion", I think. The feedback wasn't that good then. But personally I don't mind any change there Go right ahead

Indeed, "Vorbahnhof" or maybe even "Betriebsbahnhof"?

I am somewhat against Betriebsbahnhof because that would be a station that's not in use for any passenger or cargo loading/unloading. However all stations in OpenTTD serve that purpose (save eyecandy ones with certain newGrfs).

Oh, and I just realized one problem: We probably shouldn't include "...bahnhof" in any station name because it could as well be a RV station (or airport, dock, but with less probability because they're not that frequent and have one extra name).


---
I just stumbled across yet another issue: "town" versus "city". Right now, both is called "Stadt" in the german translation. To differentiate between the two, we could either promote the city to "Großstadt" or something of the likes, or demote the town to "Ort", "Ortschaft" or something similar.
I'd go with the first solution, since it's much less intrusive, and "Ort" or "Ortschaft" probably sounds silly if used everywhere where "town" is.

Opinions?

[Eddi]

Maybe we should rename "Halt" to "Haltepunkt", I think I'll do this right away. Any complaints?).

that sounds good...

i have no idea what a "Vorbahnhof" is

[Roujin]

Maybe we should rename "Halt" to "Haltepunkt", I think I'll do this right away. Any complaints?).

that sounds good...

i have no idea what a "Vorbahnhof" is

I didn't either, before I looked at this wikipedia category page I posted above: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Bahnhof
It lists some categories of train stations including the above mentioned "Anschlussbahnhof", "Vorbahnhof", "Betriebsbahnhof" and others.

The problem is that stations can also be bus/truck (or even airport, ship) stations so we shouldn't pick a name that only fits train stations. :/ (so no ...bahnhof in names). Considering this, what I wrote above wasn't a very good proposal - except if one of those sounds generic enough for all transportation types (I think "Anschluss" fulfills this for example).

Proposals from above I haven't ruled out myself again:
"{STRING} Anschluss" (generic enough for other types of transportation imo)
"{STRING} Außen" (generic made-up name by me)
"{STRING} Ort", "{STRING} Dorf" (fits for all types of transportation, but may be somewhat off if placed in the middle of nowhere)

... anything else?


---
PS: I changed a bunch of things today you may or may not agree with. I'm open to discussions if you disagree with anything, of course
For example, "hub airports" was "Großflughafen", which conflicted with "große Flughäfen" for "large airports".
I changed "Großflughafen" to "Luftfahrt-Drehkreuze", which is actually the correct translation of "hub airports" (at least from using wikipedia) BUT it might sound awkward in game so if you have any better suggestions...

---
PPS: okay, that was one productive evening changed 46 strings, filed two (minor interface) bugs at flyspray.
Hope you don't mind the changes I made. If you're not okay with anything, post it here

[planetmaker]

You have found a nice range of old strings which needed some attention

Also wrt the airports: though sceptical when reading, I turned to like it when I looked at it ingame

Two points and one question though:
"Fahrzeug kann nicht umgedreht werden" is IMO worse than the previously existing "Fahrzeug kann nicht wenden". Ein Fahrzeug wendet (aktiv) eher als dass es umgedreht wird (passiv) and is - IMO - a clear case of a too direct translation. I would like to revert that

STR_GROUP_ADD_SHARED_VEHICLE "Gemeinsame F. hinzufügen"
Was spricht gegen das Ausschreiben? Warum muß das jetzt kürzer als der m.E. beschreibende, vorherige String? Also this is something I'd like to revert

STR_SORT_BY_WAITING "Wert der wartenden Fracht"
Uhm... does it really sort by monetary value and not by amount?

Should I sound differently: no offence is meant with these remarks / questions

We should really prepare some language guide on translation guidelines I guess the wiki might be a good place...
Some general remarks (with what I tried the recent months)
- use "ausgewählt" for all cases of highlightes, selected, chosen or similar
- avoid abbr. where o. can
- Herunterladen statt Download
- Scrollen für das Verschieben der Bildansicht (ist das konsequent? auch umgesetzt?)

[Roujin]

You have found a nice range of old strings which needed some attention

That was exactly what I was planning I sorted by "last changed strings" and then worked my way from the back

Also wrt the airports: though sceptical when reading, I turned to like it when I looked at it ingame

Two points and one question though:
"Fahrzeug kann nicht umgedreht werden" is IMO worse than the previously existing "Fahrzeug kann nicht wenden". Ein Fahrzeug wendet (aktiv) eher als dass es umgedreht wird (passiv) and is - IMO - a clear case of a too direct translation. I would like to revert that

No, it's also used for turning (passivly, i.e. being turned by the player) train parts in the depot. (Ctrl+Click)
I filed a flyspray task for seperating those two. I hope the devs will implement it soon, so we can have two nice strings, "kann nicht umgedreht werden" for the Train-Depot stuff and "Kann nicht wenden" for the road vehicle not being able to turn.

I searched the source code to see exactly where this string is used Of course right now it will always be wrong for one of the two.. so I hope the flyspray task gets some attention...FS#3019

STR_GROUP_ADD_SHARED_VEHICLE "Gemeinsame F. hinzufügen"
Was spricht gegen das Ausschreiben? Warum muß das jetzt kürzer als der m.E. beschreibende, vorherige String? Also this is something I'd like to revert

edit: to make it more clear: this string is used in a horribly tight drop down in the advanced vehicle list
Hmm, my favorite would actually be "Fahrzeuge mit gemeinsamen Fahrplan hinzufügen" (because the orders are what's really shared in "shared vehicles"), but then I checked ingame where this had to fit. And I noticed that the old string "Gemeinsam genutzte Fahrzeuge hinzufügen" was already truncated to "Gemeinsam genutzt..." which leaves the reader with no idea what it actually means. The most important thing of the sentence, the verb "hinzufügen" is completely hidden. So my plan was to change it to something where at least part of the verb is still visible.
I understand that my proposal is rather horrible with the abbreviation of "Fahrzeuge" zu "F.", so if you have any better ideas, please share them.
PS: just looked it up ingame, even my string is much too long; it says "Gemeinsame F. hinz..." which still might leave the reader puzzled what verb it is. I guess it would have to be "Gem. Fzg. hinzufügen" before one can clearly read the verb...

STR_SORT_BY_WAITING "Wert der wartenden Fracht"
Uhm... does it really sort by monetary value and not by amount?

Should I sound differently: no offence is meant with these remarks / questions

Yes it does Not only does the english string speak of "value" and not "amount",
I also made a little test ingame (18 tons of coal or so were ranked higher than 25 or so passengers) and to be safe, looked in the code.
In the function StationWaitingSorter in station_gui.cpp it's easy to see that it queries the Income you would get if you were to transport exactly the waiting cargo a distance of 20 (tiles?) in 50 days. And that's the (transportation) value of the waiting cargo. (Of course it's not the absolute value of the cargo, as this is nowhere defined in the game)

Oh, and I didn't take anything you wrote as an offense. In return, please do not understand my writing as klugscheissen.

We should really prepare some language guide on translation guidelines I guess the wiki might be a good place...
Some general remarks (with what I tried the recent months)
- use "ausgewählt" for all cases of highlightes, selected, chosen or similar
- avoid abbr. where o. can
- Herunterladen statt Download
- Scrollen für das Verschieben der Bildansicht (ist das konsequent? auch umgesetzt?)

1) In one case it's still "aussuchen" instead of "auswählen": The manager face. In this case it may be fine though because you kinda browse through the faces to find a nice one, which might well be "aussuchen", instead of the normal case - dropdown menus where you choose ("auswählen") an option.
2) Of course, but in some cases it may be needed. e.g. the "Gemeinsame F. hinzufügen" thing above
3) Sure thing.
4) I also noticed this, I think it's not yet consistent. There are also two things that may be called "scroll" in english: moving the view (with right mouse or arrow keys) and instant jumping to a position (e.g. by clicking on the smallmap or a "center on me"-Button)
The first thing should imo either be called "Verschieben" or "Scrollen", just consistently.
The second thing on the other hand, should imo be called "Hauptansicht auf XY zentrieren" instead of "zu XY scrollen". What do you think?

The changes I made already went into that direction but I think it's not yet fully consistent.

[planetmaker]

4) I also noticed this, I think it's not yet consistent. There are also two things that may be called "scroll" in english: moving the view (with right mouse or arrow keys) and instant jumping to a position (e.g. by clicking on the smallmap or a "center on me"-Button)
The first thing should imo either be called "Verschieben" or "Scrollen", just consistently.
The second thing on the other hand, should imo be called "Hauptansicht auf XY zentrieren" instead of "zu XY scrollen". What do you think?

I think that's a fair proposal and what I try and tried to aim at, too.

Thanks for the explanation on the other issues, very much appreciated, and I don't consider it "klugscheißen"

[Roujin]

Hm, "base graphics" is translated very inconsistently:
* Grundgrafiken in one place
* Basisgrafiken in two places
* Standard Grafik (yuk!) in one place

What to use?
Grundgrafiken or Basisgrafiken
or add "set" to it, i.e.
Grundgrafikset or Basisgrafikset


---
I would also like to remind you guys of that issue again (I haven't made any changes to it yet):
STR_SV_STNAME_EXCHANGE

Proposals from above I haven't ruled out myself again:
"{STRING} Anschluss" (generic enough for other types of transportation imo)
"{STRING} Außen" (generic made-up name by me)
"{STRING} Ort", "{STRING} Dorf" (fits for all types of transportation, but may be somewhat off if placed in the middle of nowhere)

Do you like any of those, maybe? Or have own suggestions?

---
PS: before I forget it (again), I'm doing the change to "Großstadt" mentioned above. As always, do complain if you feel you should.

[Eddi]

i'm sure i proposed this previously: "Abzweigung"

[planetmaker]

Hm, "base graphics" is translated very inconsistently:
* Basisgrafiken in two places

I would also like to remind you guys of that issue again (I haven't made any changes to it yet):
STR_SV_STNAME_EXCHANGE

PS: before I forget it (again), I'm doing the change to "Großstadt" mentioned above. As always, do complain if you feel you should.

Basisgrafiken is what I'd prefer

Abzweig (Eddis proposal) sounds best to me

Großstadt is fine with me. We just have to pay attention then (consistency check) to not talk of "stadt" where every "ort" is meant (Stadt and Großstadt).

[Roujin]

i'm sure i proposed this previously: "Abzweigung"

Abzweig (Eddis proposal) sounds best to me

done.

Basisgrafiken is what I'd prefer

done.

I filed a flyspray task for seperating those two. I hope the devs will implement it soon, so we can have two nice strings, "kann nicht umgedreht werden" for the Train-Depot stuff and "Kann nicht wenden" for the road vehicle not being able to turn.

done.