Extended Cargo Scheme (ECS) discussion

[michael blunck]

Do you consider ECS as being done or do you consider it as a work still in progress? [...]

IMO, for temperate climate it´s pretty much done (on a basis of 32 cargoes), but arctic and tropical could need some refinements/additions. Correct me if I´m wrong. George?

regards
Michael

[wallyweb]

IMO, for temperate climate it´s pretty much done (on a basis of 32 cargoes), ...

Good. I think I have a resolution to the recent discussions on this topic.

Extended Cargo Scheme (ECS), as it exists, is fairly generic and suits most scenarios.
However, from time to time, an author will need some variation in cargo types. I'll use DanMack's example above for North American industries.
The author makes the required substitutions for the labels to fit that author's needs.
Obviously, the result is no longer ECS as originally conceived, but it is still true to the format.
The author could distinguish his version with the addition of an extension to the name. e.g. Extended Cargo Scheme - North American (ECS-NA).
Because this would be a unique situation, there would be no need for the author to document his version on the wiki.(1) Hopefully he would consider documenting it in his set's documentation, perhaps with a table similar to the one you used.
The author would also be responsible for documenting which transportation sets (Rail, Road, Air and Sea) supported his ECS version. In all probability the author would be drawing appropriate graphics anyways, but if done carefully, it might be possible for his version to be reflected in existing transport sets.

(1) Of course the author would have to define new labels and these could be added to the wiki as supplementary labels in order to avoid duplication.

I hope this makes sense.

Wally

[michael blunck]

BTW, I´ve just taken a look at the brand-new NACE rev 2 and interestingly there are some changes from rev 1.1, where in section D (manufacturing), there was a subsection DF (manufacture of coke, refined petroleum products and nuclear fuel) ["nuclear fuel" in rev 2 seems to have gone], and under division 23, group 23.1 being "manufacture of coke oven products", group 23.2 being "manufacture of refined petroleum products", and group 23.3 being "processing of nuclear fuel".

I.e., while ECS relying heavily on the NACE categorization, we could change the ECS label "RFPR" ("refined products", at the time being addressing only group 23.2) either by shifting the ECS category one up including groups 23.1 and 23.3 as well, or we could use cargo labels RFPR, COKE and NFUL (or something like that) mutually exclusive per .grf, thus contenting with that number of 32 cargoes we have today.

regards
Michael

[George]

Do you consider ECS as being done or do you consider it as a work still in progress? [...]

IMO, for temperate climate it´s pretty much done (on a basis of 32 cargoes), but arctic and tropical could need some refinements/additions. Correct me if I´m wrong. George?

According to the last discussion with Csaboka it would be possible to negate the difference between landscapes, so using selected name would be a question of taste. In my implementation I allow to use any object in any landscape. Even in toyland. That means it can be considered as done for every landscape, but you can apply any mod in any landscape too. The difference you have now is desert and rain forest tests (they are applied regardless the current landscape). Another difference is trees (that is used only in ECS Town vector).

[Guisseppe]

I have to say:
Yesterday I installed the 6 dec. version of ECS, but I really dislike the sprite of the new Steelmill. Why is the old one replaced?

So: Can I still use the old steel mill, but with the functions of the newest ECS version?

*Edit: Your right, perhaps in the other forum thread. But... There are a lot of different topics about this subject AND I got to this threat from the patch wiki: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECS
I just followed the 'proposal forum' link.

[wallyweb]

Yesterday I installed the 6 dec. version of ECS, but I really dislike the sprite of the new Steelmill. Why is the old one replaced?

This thread is a discussion of the ECS scheme ... not implementations such as ECS implementation by George: ECS vectors. Beta 3 08/10/2007
You'll get a faster response if you post over there.
If you PM a moderator, they might be able to move your question into the proper thread.


Moderator: Go ahead and delete this post if it helps to relocate Guisseppe's post.

[wallyweb]

There seems to be an inconsistency:

Cargo Types in TTD
Cargo Labels lists CERE Cereal Cargo class as 0020 Piece goods

Cargo Types in ECS
Cargo Labels lists CERE Cereal Cargo class as 0010 Bulk

I would think that 0010 Bulk is the proper description.
I would edit the "Cargo Types in TTD" wiki page but first I need to make sure that doing so won't break anybody's leg, arm, heart, scheme, plan, visualization, implementation, cargo scheme, cargo set, industry set, vehicle set or mind set.

So, will making this change break anything?

[George]

There seems to be an inconsistency:

Cargo Types in TTD
Cargo Labels lists CERE Cereal Cargo class as 0020 Piece goods

This is wrong

Cargo Types in ECS
Cargo Labels lists CERE Cereal Cargo class as 0010 Bulk

This is right

I would think that 0010 Bulk is the proper description.
I would edit the "Cargo Types in TTD" wiki page but first I need to make sure that doing so won't break anybody's leg, arm, heart, scheme, plan, visualization, implementation, cargo scheme, cargo set, industry set, vehicle set or mind set.

So, will making this change break anything?

[tasgh]

I've installed all ECS vectors but my trains can only load the default cargos..

Did I miss something?

[DaleStan]

You need a trainset containing trains that can load non-default cargos.

[viking42]

Hi,

Ive tried all the possbiel parameters, but cant get my ECS factories to stop closing
Is there any way a "not active" factory remains open forever? for all factories?

[George]

Hi,
Ive tried all the possbiel parameters, but cant get my ECS factories to stop closing
Is there any way a "not active" factory remains open forever? for all factories?

"no closure at all" would be available only in beta 6 of ECS vectors.
Currently you can prevent only serviced factories from closure
http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... nformation

[Lordmwa]

Im using OpenTTD. If i put parameter 8 into the grf will that stop anything serviced from closing?

[George]

Im using OpenTTD. If i put parameter 8 into the grf will that stop anything serviced from closing?

Yes, expect exhausted mines.
For Town vector its fourth parameter, and for Basic vector it is the second one

[iamtk421]

I have a problem with running just the Wood Vector.
No matter what I do or how much 'wood product' I deliver to a paper mill it always has a 3% rating and closes after a few years. The same then goes for the printing works. My sawmill is running at 'Ultimate' level providing wood product. According to http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... VPaperMill the papermill requires 'refined products' unless not defined. I assume this means if the chemical vector isn't loaded the papermill shouldn't need 'refined products'?

It definitely seems to require it to me...
I'm using the latest Wood ECS I could see, dated Nov 2009.

Edit:.... or is it just caused by the fact that I wasn't taking goods from the printing works to town?
Nope... doesn't seem to matter...

[George]

I have a problem with running just the Wood Vector.
No matter what I do or how much 'wood product' I deliver to a paper mill it always has a 3% rating and closes after a few years. The same then goes for the printing works. My sawmill is running at 'Ultimate' level providing wood product. According to http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php ... VPaperMill the papermill requires 'refined products' unless not defined. I assume this means if the chemical vector isn't loaded the papermill shouldn't need 'refined products'?

Correct

It definitely seems to require it to me...
I'm using the latest Wood ECS I could see, dated Nov 2009.
Edit:.... or is it just caused by the fact that I wasn't taking goods from the printing works to town?
Nope... doesn't seem to matter...

provide a savegame, please.

Transportation of secondary cargo is required to have production above 12% (Normal)

[iamtk421]

Save file attached...

When I said it 'doesn't seem to matter', I meant I'd then started transporting goods to the nearby town and it didn't seem to have any effect.

Oh yea, I tried setting the GRF parameter to '8' as well, and it didn't seem to stop the paper mill and printing works from closing either.

[George]

Save file attached...
When I said it 'doesn't seem to matter', I meant I'd then started transporting goods to the nearby town and it didn't seem to have any effect.
Oh yea, I tried setting the GRF parameter to '8' as well, and it didn't seem to stop the paper mill and printing works from closing either.

R19821 reports "Broken savegame"

Please provide a save game that can be tested with trunk.

[GoldRush]

This is nuts! All of the industries close down in 24 game months unless they get serviced, without any way to circumvent that, I built a scenario specially made for the ECS vectors before knowing this, and it made me mad! Is this some kind of cruel joke, George?!?

Give me freedom or give me death!

[SHADOW-XIII]

This is nuts! All of the industries close down in 24 game months unless they get serviced, without any way to circumvent that, I built a scenario specially made for the ECS vectors before knowing this, and it made me mad! Is this some kind of cruel joke, George?!?

Give me freedom or give me death!

calm down, ask politely