Penichettes for canals and rivers

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 14 Aug 2006 22:42

hi guys,

I was bored today, as the weather was so bad, I wouldn't even think about going outside.
As for a while already, I was fed up with having huge ocean liners trying to menouvre around my narrow canals, or pass under a 1 hight bridge, I thought it was about time to change something.

So I created the first draft of a "Penichette", which is typically used on rivers and canals around Europe.

Whatcha think of it? If you guys like that, I might continue to draw on this over time, so I might get a whole set together, but let's not think about that, yet.

So, please, any constructive feedback is welcome.

lifeblood · Post by **lifeblood** » 14 Aug 2006 23:00

Very nice work. It's more realistic for a TT scale map as there tends not to be oceans, only inland water-ways.

Some big, lumbering barges would be nice too.

Can't wait to see more.

Ouu, constructive criticism: perhaps the side of the hull is a little on the dark side, especially with the lighter swatch at the bow. Where's the light coming from?!

ChristopherT · Post by **ChristopherT** » 15 Aug 2006 00:41

The Irish wrote:hi guys,

Whatcha think of it? If you guys like that, I might continue to draw on this over time, so I might get a whole set together, but let's not think about that, yet.

So, please, any constructive feedback is welcome.

I grew up on the Erie Canal and that's a really nice looking piece of work! I could see myself using this on my canal-based maps.

Thanks!

Christopher

Redirect Left · Post by **Redirect Left** » 15 Aug 2006 01:24

I love it! Awesome!

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » 15 Aug 2006 06:54

Wow! Very nice!

Of course, waiting for other wiews.

Caelan · Post by **Caelan** » 15 Aug 2006 07:22

Wow this is way better then the regular ships that are travelling the waterways currently! Keep it up, perhaps an additional set to what is already available would be very nice. (shipping was the oldest way to transport goods from one place to another place.

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 15 Aug 2006 07:50

Paul, you may be interested that "inland navigation vesssels" are already part of NewShips XL as shown on http://www.ttdpatch.de/latest2004.html:

ATM, I´m in the process of adding ECS goods for them:

regards
Michael

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 15 Aug 2006 08:00

Hi Michael,

Yeah, well, that is what I had more or less in mind when I started this. I knew that you have done some work on that field already, but I have never seen it released... I remember you saying something about not enough slots, and stuff. What a pitty.

Anyways, I'm doing this mostly for practice, trying to get shadings right, and stuff.
I realize that I'm far from having any complete set, and I don't have a complete plan to make one.

So I will just continue to make the remaining views for this one, and then see where it goes from there.

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 15 Aug 2006 08:20

I knew that you have done some work on that field already, but I have never seen it released... I remember you saying something about not enough slots [...]

Indeed, the main reason has been that too well-known lack of ship slots and the fact that the developers had at least discussed twice about a possible way to overcome this. So the release got halted in the promise of more ship slots eventually.

But that was almost two years ago.

Now, we still don´t have a solution for the slot problem but I had begun work again on those ships when ECS had been introduced and there will be a release in the very near future. (Although without a general solution to the lacking ship slots problem.)

Anyways, I'm doing this mostly for practice [...] I will just continue to make the remaining views for this one, and then see where it goes from there.

Have fun!

regards
Michael

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 15 Aug 2006 08:20

The Irish:
I really like the ship, however I am not sure how it can fit in our tiny canals

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 15 Aug 2006 08:45

eis_os wrote:The Irish:
I really like the ship, however I am not sure how it can fit in our tiny canals

Yeah, I realized this, when I saw the ones from MB.

MB wrote: Now, we still don´t have a solution for the slot problem but I had begun work again on those ships when ECS had been introduced and there will be a release in the very near future. (Although without a general solution to the lacking ship slots problem.)

How about releasing them as a seperate set which takes up all slots? Then the users could have the choice to either play with the big Ocean liners, or, if his scenario is more based on rivers and stuff, then he could use the "inland vessels".

And just for the sake of it, here is the horizontal view. It is a bit small, but when I make it bigger, it also looks bad...

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 15 Aug 2006 09:22

How about releasing them as a seperate set which takes up all slots?

Well, no. In the XL set, it´ll act only as a single model, i.e. it´ll be refittable to all goods, so it takes only one of the available slots. O/c one of the existing ships must give way in any case. At least until Oskar has another one of his great ideas about "recycling ship slots".

Then the users could have the choice to either play with the big Ocean liners, or, if his scenario is more based on rivers and stuff, then he could use the "inland vessels".

Well, the real fun comes only when linking those diverse transportation chains, as you should know.

And just for the sake of it, here is the horizontal view. It is a bit small, but when I make it bigger, it also looks bad...

Don´t worry, it´s still too big, so the problem would rather be to make it even smaller ...

regards
Michael

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 15 Aug 2006 09:35

michael blunck wrote: Well, no. In the XL set, it´ll act only as a single model, i.e. it´ll be refittable to all goods, so it takes only one of the available slots. O/c one of the existing ships must give way in any case. At least until Oskar has another one of his great ideas about "recycling ship slots".

Let's hope he does.

Well, the real fun comes only when linking those diverse transportation chains, as you should know.

Yes, of course, this would be the real fun. In any case, if it would be for me only, you could take out the hovercraft and/or the livestock carrier.
Wouldn't it be possible to have the normal bulk carrier refitable to the livestock carrier and it adapts to the correct graphics?

Don´t worry, it´s still too big, so the problem would rather be to make it even smaller ...

I guess you mean that the whole ship is too big for the canals, which I know. I will see if I can take/cut out some bits. But for the comparison between the / and the - view, how does that look?

eis_os · Post by **eis_os** » 15 Aug 2006 10:31

Hmm, ship slots, yeah, should add this to my todolist... simple the real problem is that TTD access by simple id (the 255 ones) and directly the arrays... (and some arrays are simple unknow)

ChristopherT · Post by **ChristopherT** » 15 Aug 2006 12:51

The Irish wrote: How about releasing them as a seperate set which takes up all slots? Then the users could have the choice to either play with the big Ocean liners, or, if his scenario is more based on rivers and stuff, then he could use the "inland vessels".

Now that's exactly what I was thinking you could do. Just make a .grf file that would replace the existing ships with various canal barges. When I'm playing I don't tend to form big shipping networks, at the most I'll have one passenger ferry and a mail ship. Canal boats could everything thier larger cousins could do, some even had cranes attached for coal delivery.

Christopher

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 15 Aug 2006 12:55

Looks Good Irish!

Nice to see more ships in the works

Pikka and I had an idea of having a base hull for various ship types such as Bulk Carrier, Tanker, Passenger Liner, Ferry, etc, and having the refit cost and capacity adjust over time. Sort of like your 'Inland Vessel' idea Michael.

For Instance, a bulk carrier hull will cost $25,000 say, and to refit to 160T of coal will cost you $75,000 giving you a $100,000 ship. Several years down the road, the same hull can be built into a larger ship for more money. This saves slots, and through some creative allocation, 11 slots can become 2 major generations with numerous variations.

There are 11 ship slots at the moment, so in theory, you could have these various types.

1. Sailing Ship
2. Canal/Inland vessel
3. Early Bulk Carrier
4. Early Tanker
5. Early Ferry Boat =>Possible Railcar Ferry Refit?
6. Early General Cargo
7. Passenger Liner
8. Modern Bulk Carrier (After 1960)
9. Supertanker (After 1960)
10. Container/General Cargo Vessel (After 1960)
11. Hovercraft/Modern Ferry

This can be modified of course, but it's a good start. Too bad we can't adjust operating costs based on refit...

michael blunck · Post by **michael blunck** » 15 Aug 2006 14:17

Pikka and I had an idea of having a base hull for various ship types such as Bulk Carrier, Tanker, Passenger Liner, Ferry, etc, and having the refit cost and capacity adjust over time.
[...] This saves slots, and through some creative allocation, 11 slots can become 2 major generations with numerous variations.

Yes, well. Familiar thoughts. In the XL version of NewShips there are already a couple of modifications towards a more extended refittability, e.g. there´s already a generic "tanker" refittable to crude oil, LNG, liquid chemicals etc. under the ECS umbrella.

However, IMO some vessels will have to remain distinct, i.e. they cannot be "generated" from refitting a "generic freighter". E.g., in RL reefers or livestock carriers do not only have distinct names but also a distinct outward appearance. Livestock carriers in particular are very special vessels and I wouldn´t like to get them by only "refitting" a generic "bulk freighter". Same goes for reefers and container carriers.

OTOH, inland vessels only need one single slot because of their rather uniform naming scheme and outward appearance.

> Too bad we can't adjust operating costs based on refit...

IMO, it´s even more bad that we cannot change their names.

regards
Michael

Toni Babelony · Post by **Toni Babelony** » 15 Aug 2006 14:42

DanMacK wrote:...
5. Early Ferry Boat =>Possible Railcar Ferry Refit?
...

Now THAT sounds interesting!

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 15 Aug 2006 16:48

Very interesting indeed.

I managed to narrow the whole thing a bit in the / views.

whatcha think?

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 15 Aug 2006 18:18

Will the ocean liners in NewShips XL have more capacity than they have now?
I think a container ship should be able to carry more goods than a train is able to. Now a train with 11 container vans can carry 880 tons of good, the container ship just 450.
It would make ships more profitable as well as the bigger amount of goods would make up for their slow speed.

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Penichettes for canals and rivers

Penichettes for canals and rivers

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