Monthly Scenario Contest - Ideas and Enthusiasm

General talk about Transport Tycoon that isn't specific to TTD, TTDPatch or OpenTTD.

How interested are you?

Who needs a Scenario Contest?
2
8%
I would download and play the best scenarios, but I certainly suck at makeing them
14
56%
Cool idea, I'll contribute a scenario every now and then
6
24%
What! Only one scenario per month?
1
4%
I suck at scenarios, but I'll be happy to serve on the jury
2
8%
I'ts a pity that I cant enter a scenario into the contest im a juror in :(
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 25

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SpComb
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Monthly Scenario Contest - Ideas and Enthusiasm

Post by SpComb »

--- NOTE----
Poll had to be re-added, please revote, whoever it was that had voted

Some time last spring, Purno suggested holding a Monthly Scenario Contest. It died away after a while, but at one point I became interested in codeing the website for it. So I did indeed blow the dust off Apache, mySQL and my favorit codeing editor, and started to write the website for it.

I've already got a fair bit of it done. Right now, its 'hosted' on my laptop, because my own server's hard disk failed on Friday (as well as the CPU fan), so I can't give you a good link. I'll probably have to switch my laptop off for the night, but until then you can try This. (Registering and Uploading scenarios should work, but I dont recommend it yet).
I am not a artistic/designer type, so the interface & co isnt very good. But the main features _should_ work, but keep in mind its a development version still. On that note, if anyone is interested in writing some html for the site, please say something!

Okay, the reason I made this topic is that I have a couple questions that I would like your opinions on.

First of all, this is going to (doesnt yet fully) also have OpenTTD and Lomo sections, not just TTDPatch, so should I make a little pointer topic in those sections to this one?

Next, my main interest (as can be seen in the poll question), is how many people are interested to upload scenarios/serve on the jury?

So that you can make a educated descision on if you want to be on the jury, note the following:
A Juror has to Download, test and vote on every uploaded scenario.

Now, I also have other questions.

Currently, the largest one I have is about the way that the jury is selected.
The idea is that there is a waiting list for the jury, and that at the begining of every month, the five people that have waited the longest as put onto the jury (actually, they are sent a email, and if they dont confirm their existance in a certain time, they drop off the list, and the next one is chosen). The trouble with that, is that problems could follow if getting onto the jury was simply a matter of clicking a button. For instance, what would happen if someone registers five accounts, and then controls the whole jury for some month? So some sort of access control is needed, and I've come up with the following:
:arrow: A user has the have gotten a certain amount of points to be able to get onto the jury
:arrow: Every month, each user can cast their vote on someone from the list, and the ones with the most votes are selected.
:arrow: Manual selection by Admin(Purno)
:arrow: Any other ideas?

Another question I have is that should users be able to look at the objectives of the next month's (and the ones after that) competitions objectives? Or should they only get to know them at the start of the month?

Also, should a user only be allowed to upload their scenario once, or should they be able to possibly upload a newer version (all the votes on the old one are lost).

If you have any other suggestions, because post them too!
Last edited by SpComb on 17 Sep 2005 20:35, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by wallyweb »

This is a cool idea ... I like it and it should be a fun way for us to get to try other people's scenarios.

Suggestion:
You probably intend to do this but just in case - keep the games in separate groups with separate sets of judges as in
Lomo gets Lomo judges
OTTD gets OTTD judges
TTD gets TTD judges
TTD - Patched gets TTD - Patched judges.
The reason being that not all players have all of these on their systems.

Other than that I like the rest of it ... the judge selection criteria is intriguing. :D

PS - I'd offer to help with the HTML but I've got a couple of projects that need finishing first.

Any chance orudge could host this on the forum's server?
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Post by SpComb »

To clarify:
The only thing common between the different sections will be the list of users. I'll give you a couple example links
http://munki3.paivola.fi/purno/view.php?list=comps
Notice that the different competitions are separate
http://munki3.paivola.fi/purno/view.php?show=user&id=3
at the very bottom, you'll notice that the row is green (not completely). That means that its a OpenTTD Scenario (although its not really a scenario).
If you register (provided the email works), and then try
http://munki3.paivola.fi/purno/upload.php
You will notice that you can select the category.
The page thats currently index.php isnt really the index, thats something like
http://munki3.paivola.fi/purno/conecpt/sheet11.PNG (try not to open that too many times)

--- Links wont work once I turn my laptop off ---

[edit] oh, almost forgot. The different :arrow: things in the first post are mutually incompatible options. So I need to pick one. So please tell me which one you want, or suggest a new one.
Last edited by SpComb on 17 Sep 2005 20:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by wallyweb »

Cool: I'll post a scenario once you get it set up on a server :D
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Re: Monthly Scenario Contest - Ideas and Enthusiasm

Post by Purno »

SpComb wrote:So some sort of access control is needed, and I've come up with the following:
:arrow: A user has the have gotten a certain amount of points to be able to get onto the jury
:arrow: Every month, each user can cast their vote on someone from the list, and the ones with the most votes are selected.
:arrow: Manual selection by Admin(Purno)
:arrow: Any other ideas?
I'd suggest option 1 and 3. Since in the beginning nobody has any points, so nobody will be able to be in the jury, you need option 3.
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Post by SpComb »

Okay, If we go with options 1 and 3, then the next question comes:
How many points do you need to get onto the jury?
The way the points will probably work is that the admin of the site can disqualify a scenario, in which case it gets 0 points. Normally though, there are five judges, and the minimum vote is a 1, maximum 10. So every scenario, no matter how bad it is, will get at least 5 points. The maximum is 50.
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Post by Raichase »

Oh god, I am so in on this. I wouldn't want to be a juror (sp?), but I love making scenarios. I blame Jim, for inspiring me to create stuff in the editor :].
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Post by jvassie »

SpComb, id be interested in helping with the HTML, im fairly good at HTML, but not any other coding.

Just shout if you need help with it.

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Post by Purno »

Now I think of it, TBH, I don't want to make up all contest objectives myself.

Would it be possible to have an special 'admin' for each contest. This admin makes up the contest objectives and can disqualify scenarios. We would have such a 'contest admin' for every game type (TTDPatch, OpenTTD and Locomotion). And there will be one (or more) überadmin ( = me ), which can select all important stuffies and can select the contest admins.

Would that be possible, SpComb, or does this suggestion come too late?
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Post by SpComb »

Never is anything too late!
Of course thats possible. I'll add it to my mental todo list, but currently im working on the jury. Should the category maintainers be able to manually choose the jury?
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Post by Purno »

SpComb wrote:Should the category maintainers be able to manually choose the jury?
yes, I think that's the best thing to do.
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Post by OzTrans »

A user has the have gotten a certain amount of points to be able to get onto the jury
... unfair on only jurors; I for one won't have time to create scenarios, but judging is quite ok.
... Should the category maintainers be able to manually choose the jury?
Why not ?

When registering as juror, you need an option to select what game categories (ie. TTDPatch, OpenTTD etc) judging is possible or desired.

Casting votes should only occur, once the competion for the month has closed so really the best scenario can get top votes; i.e. some time is needed until votes are due.

Maybe the number of scenarios lodged per user/month should be limited (to may be even 1) so that every body that lodges just 1 scenario has an even chance, otherwise 10 bad ones get you equal points compared to just one extremely good one.
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Post by Patchman »

OzTransLtd wrote:Maybe the number of scenarios lodged per user/month should be limited (to may be even 1) so that every body that lodges just 1 scenario has an even chance, otherwise 10 bad ones get you equal points compared to just one extremely good one.
Or award points only once per month, one the average (mean or median) score of the scenarios submitted by the user that month.
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Post by OzTrans »

Patchman wrote:Or award points only once per month, one the average (mean or median) score of the scenarios submitted by the user that month.
That's even better.
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Post by Purno »

First... SpComb, check this idea: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=356329#356329

___

Second:
OzTransLtd wrote:
A user has the have gotten a certain amount of points to be able to get onto the jury
... unfair on only jurors; I for one won't have time to create scenarios, but judging is quite ok.
Very true. But we want to prevent irritating n00bs for messing around with the votes.
When registering as juror, you need an option to select what game categories (ie. TTDPatch, OpenTTD etc) judging is possible or desired.
Every category will be seperated. If you register as juror for TTDpatch, you're not registered as juror for OpenTTD.
Casting votes should only occur, once the competion for the month has closed so really the best scenario can get top votes; i.e. some time is needed until votes are due.
Indeed. I'd suggest something like you've the complete month to bring in your scenario, than two weeks for the jury to vote (while the next contest is already started), and the results will be online for the other 2 weeks. Although I have to discuss this with my scripter.
Maybe the number of scenarios lodged per user/month should be limited (to may be even 1) so that every body that lodges just 1 scenario has an even chance, otherwise 10 bad ones get you equal points compared to just one extremely good one.
Yes, the number of scenarios per user per contest will be limited to one. It wouldn't really be fair if, for example, Jim Powers wins the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place for one contest :lol:
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Post by OzTrans »

When registering as juror, you need an option to select what game categories (ie. TTDPatch, OpenTTD etc) judging is possible or desired.
Every category will be seperated. If you register as juror for TTDpatch, you're not registered as juror for OpenTTD.
... but when I registered this morming it did not tell me what category I was registering. Further, the links in those email-confirmation messages do not contain http:// or what ever is needed; it takes some time to work that out.
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Post by SpComb »

OzTransLtd wrote:
A user has the have gotten a certain amount of points to be able to get onto the jury
... unfair on only jurors; I for one won't have time to create scenarios, but judging is quite ok.
That problem came to mind yesterday when I was talking with Lakie. We also really need people that want to be on the jury and not post scenarios, so I dont really know what to do about that. The only solution I can think of is something involving the category maintainer hand-picking the jury candidates, and then they are put up onto a list, and then chosen from there. But yes, the points system wont work, IMO.
OzTransLtd wrote: When registering as juror, you need an option to select what game categories (ie. TTDPatch, OpenTTD etc) judging is possible or desired.
As Purno said, each entry on the waiting list for juror knows what category it wants to be. However, It seems I forgot that when I wrote the code that selects them, well, I'll fix that up.
OzTransLtd wrote: Casting votes should only occur, once the competion for the month has closed so really the best scenario can get top votes; i.e. some time is needed until votes are due.
Thats an interesting idea. But theoretically, the vote on the scenario should not be based on what the other scenarios got for votes, but just on the scenario itself? Not sure about this, but its probably doable that way too.
OzTransLtd wrote: Maybe the number of scenarios lodged per user/month should be limited (to may be even 1) so that every body that lodges just 1 scenario has an even chance, otherwise 10 bad ones get you equal points compared to just one extremely good one.
Right now, it only lets the person upload exactly one scenario per category per month. In my opinion they should only be allowed one per month, but perhaps give them the chance to upload a new version, looseing all the votes on the old one? Of course, you are welcome to contradict me.
OzTransLtd wrote: Further, the links in those email-confirmation messages do not contain http:// or what ever is needed; it takes some time to work that out.
Please do keep in mind that the site is still under development. However, please do tell me this stuff, so that I can correct it. I'll add a big title that for the category to jury.php, and then fix the selection stuff. Im amazed you even got onto the site :o. But this will still probably take weeks to finish, mabey I can set a goal that it can be running for next months competition? I'll really have to see though, I dont have that much free time during the school days, of which I have every day until the weekend after next, the first of the next month :(
OldTimer wrote:Is it your intension to discuss the entries, and offer suggestions which may improve them? Or perhaps suggest ways to speed up the production of such scenarios?
A commentating system is of course possible (the scenario details page looks very blank currently!). However, mabey an idea that only the jurors, when they vote, commentate on the scenarios? I don't want to turn the site into a general scenario-sharing site, theres the Repositry which is a lot better at that. But comments on the votes wouldnt be a bad idea (in fact its already in the database).

Wow, I asked for ideas and discussion, and I certainly got them :D
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Post by SpComb »

Please excuse my double posts here.

Okay, I've acted on the suggestions here, and gixed a couple things.
:arrow: There should now be different jurys for the three different categories, and they are separate. I just found some nasty stuff involving me getting the confirmation email five times for the jury, but all that should hopefully be fixed now.
:arrow: The different categories are now there. Its as simple as adding 'cat=2' to the page link, e.g. TTDPatch, OpenTTD, Locomotion. The way they work right now isnt really good though, tomorrow I'll make the real index page (that lets you select between the categories), and make a working system for the categories that keeps your current category in a cookie.
:arrow: I've added comments to votes, which are now shown in detail under the scenario profile. Letting users post comments is possible too, but Im not sure if its a good idea.
:arrow: Category maintainers, I cant really give you a link though, because you have to be an admin :p. But you can view, add and delete them from the different categories.

TODO
:arrow: I still dont know how to do the access control for the jury. We need to some up with some working system that does it, and I not sure what you want.
:arrow: Disqualify Scenarios (possibly users and judges too) as a administrative measure by the Grand Admin.
:arrow: I'd like to make some sort of PM system, where its either emailed or shown as a pop up the next time the user visits (of course you can opt out, except for admin-sent messages :p).
:arrow: Oh yeah, there was some discussion about scenarios being posted over the course of the month, and then beign voted on for a couple weeks the next. I personally dont really like it (although moveing the deadline for scenario uploads by a couple days wouldnt be a bad idea, to let the judges finish up the voteing). But if lots of people agree with this, its certainly possible.
:arrow: Any other bright :idea: that I could make?
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Post by Purno »

SpComb wrote: :arrow: Disqualify Scenarios (possibly users and judges too) as a administrative measure by the Grand Admin.
The disqualification of scenarios will be done by the category maintainer, not the Grand Admin (although he should have this possibility too).
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Post by SpComb »

Okay... Here is a more prickly question.

Should a category maintainer be allowed to submit scenarios and be on the jury, eithr for their category or another one?

I think as long as they are good, honest people theres really nothing to stop them from doing both.
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