Extended Cargo Scheme (ECS) discussion

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krtaylor
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Post by krtaylor » 14 Sep 2005 20:05

I haven't had this problem much with food, but it's a terrible trouble with goods. We need a Warehouse.
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Post by Siema » 14 Sep 2005 20:11

Wouldn't it be too easy when you will always have place to store food or goods? For me it is element of game challange that you have to provide transport in city to allow it grow, and your award is that it can accept food or goods.

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Post by krtaylor » 14 Sep 2005 20:49

My thought would be that you can pay to build a Warehouse or Cold Storage facility (which accepts goods or food, and contributes to the town accordingly), BUT you are only allowed to build them in a town that already accepts goods or food. So this isn't a shortcut to getting the town able to accept them, merely an insurance that the town will continue to accept them.
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Post by George » 14 Sep 2005 20:52

As far as I remember, default vehicles (except aircrafts and ship which are refittable to fast everything), are not refittable. That means that only cargo ID should be the same while the bit mask does not matter. That made me to think about the possibility to put all the default cargos into the ECS.
What is suggested?
ECS is the general schema for all the landscapes. For specific landscapes (generic ones are arctic and tropic) and specific landscapes (like Japan set, Canadian set, Spanish set) there are special mods, which change the ECS (mods for generic landscapes are represented in the schema).
All the sets have to be changed to support ECS. If I’m not mistaken, only refitted vehicles should be changed.
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Post by Siema » 14 Sep 2005 21:00

krtaylor wrote:My thought would be that you can pay to build a Warehouse or Cold Storage facility (which accepts goods or food, and contributes to the town accordingly), BUT you are only allowed to build them in a town that already accepts goods or food. So this isn't a shortcut to getting the town able to accept them, merely an insurance that the town will continue to accept them.
If so, than it's okay. But what when town will lost in population and stop accepting food/goods and storage/warehouse is already built? It can occur especially when towns are small and only few buildings accept food/goods.

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Post by krtaylor » 14 Sep 2005 21:07

That is, in fact, precisely the point - the goal of this suggestion is to keep such an event from bollixing up your network.
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Post by Siema » 14 Sep 2005 21:36

But it is in some way a cheat - town doesn't accept food/goods but there is storage/warehouse that allow you to send those products to this town. I have such problem very rarely only in '30 - '50 when towns are small and I think the goal is to first develop and establish town (which is not difficult thing), than transport there food/goods and allow town to grow more. BUT on the other hand storage/warehouse will be very useful building in later years, when towns are big - you will be able to have cargo station in suburbs which is indeed very realistic, but I'm not sure if it is good method to establishing your food/goods routes in early years. I think it's simplifying.

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Post by krtaylor » 15 Sep 2005 03:19

Yes, it is in some ways a cheat. But it's also kind of a bugfix. I rarely have the problem with quickly growing/shrinking towns in the Arctic or Temperate, but in the Tropic it's endemic. It's ridiculous, and a headache. That's where I'd really want to use these.
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Post by SHADOW-XIII » 15 Sep 2005 09:19

well the warehous/granary/food storage appearing can be set to only big towns, like 5000 people or more, then you do not have to transport those cargos somewhere in the middle of a town only to those facilites (which is more realistic then)
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Post by michael blunck » 15 Sep 2005 09:28

[cargo takers in towns]

> warehouse/food storage

I´d propose to implement them as "buildings" rather than as "industries".

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Post by Purno » 15 Sep 2005 10:04

michael blunck wrote: I´d propose to implement them as "buildings" rather than as "industries".
As long as they don't suddenly disappear, that would be fine, IMO.
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Post by Siema » 15 Sep 2005 10:23

krtaylor wrote:but in the Tropic it's endemic. It's ridiculous, and a headache.
Okay, I understand :)
well the warehous/granary/food storage appearing can be set to only big towns, like 5000 people or more, then you do not have to transport those cargos somewhere in the middle of a town only to those facilites (which is more realistic then)
That's what I said about cargo stations in big cities and it will be very useful, but it's second thing because this doesn't solve krtaylor's problem.
I´d propose to implement them as "buildings" rather than as "industries".
As long as they don't suddenly disappear, that would be fine, IMO.
Exactly. They must be stable (AFAIK it's possible through buildings), no matter if they are industries or normal buildings. But we must remember to not fetch it into simplification.

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Post by michael blunck » 15 Sep 2005 10:29

>>> warehouse/food storage

>> I´d propose to implement them as "buildings" rather than as "industries".

> As long as they don't suddenly disappear, that would be fine, IMO.

Well, for normal buildings, you don´t have any influence on the town´s construction process. O/c, the usual town buildings would take "food" and "goods" in any case, so adding storage facilities would simply foster that behaviour.

However, there are means to ensure that these special buildings wouldn´t be removed by towns.

The details have to be still found out and the whole thing would be part of a buildings set then.

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Post by wallyweb » 15 Sep 2005 11:51

Warehouses? Food storage?
This is a no brainer!
You already have them!
Build a station with the PGS warehouse tiles. Then have your train do an unload there. POOF! Instant storage. I do it all the time. I rename them as distribution centers or food terminals or the like. Attach a truck station and you can set up a local delivery route from the warehouse.
Bottom line? You do not need another building or whatever. They already exist.

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Post by Siema » 15 Sep 2005 12:35

But station with even most beautiful warehouse/storage won't force your town to accept food/goods :wink:

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Post by wallyweb » 15 Sep 2005 12:59

Siema wrote:But station with even most beautiful warehouse/storage won't force your town to accept food/goods :wink:
But that's not the point.
The point is to have a place to keep the stuff until it can be accepted.

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Post by Patchman » 15 Sep 2005 13:20

But if you keep it in a warehouse, you won't get any money for delivery because it'll be spoiled.
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Post by Siema » 15 Sep 2005 14:01

Patchman wrote:But if you keep it in a warehouse, you won't get any money for delivery because it'll be spoiled.
Indeed.
The point is to have a place to keep the stuff until it can be accepted.
This will be not ttd-like, and it's complicating things. We were only talking about building/industry that can accept food/goods because buildings in towns are moving and going outside station acceptance area.

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Post by wallyweb » 15 Sep 2005 15:45

Patchman wrote:But if you keep it in a warehouse, you won't get any money for delivery because it'll be spoiled.
Ya gota know how to do it. 8)
Siema wrote:This will be not ttd-like, and it's complicating things. We were only talking about building/industry that can accept food/goods because buildings in towns are moving and going outside station acceptance area.
This is indeed very ttd-like and its not complicated.
Here's how to do it:
1. In your game, open the railroad station building tool.
2. Select Freight
3. Select Warehouse
4. Select the number of tracks and length for your new warehouse.
5. Point and click on the spot where you want to build it. (you will notice that your new warehouse includes track through it)
6. Run some track from your new warehouse back to a station near a food processing plant.
7. Build a train with refrigerated box cars reconfigured to transport food from the food processing plant to your new warehouse.
8. Set the train's orders to "full load" at the food processing plant's station and to "unload" at your new warehouse.
9. Open the road building tool
10. Select the truck station icon (make sure it is the proper orientation)
11. Point and click on a tile directly adjacent to your new warehouse. (you now have a truck station that is part of your new warehouse)
12. Run a road from the truck station to any road in your town.
13. Build several truck stations in your town so that at least one will receive food whenever the town moves houses.
14. Build some of George's trucks reconfigured to transport food from your new warehouse to each of the truck stations in your town.
15. When one of your trucks happens to find a station that actually accepts food, you will earn money for transporting the food. A feature of the patch will allow that money to be shared between the truck and the train.
15. Now, this is the most important part ... pay very close attention ... because it will all fail unless you get this right:
16. Your new warehouse is actually a station. It has a station name. Click on that station name and add these words (exactly, or it won't work):
"Refrigerated Warehouse".

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Post by SHADOW-XIII » 15 Sep 2005 17:26

wallyweb wrote:13. Build several truck stations in your town so that at least one will receive food whenever the town moves houses.
this forces me to either give a vehicle multiple orders (for example to visit ALL those stations) which makes train/road networks quiet busy and stuckable
or
to built multiple vehicles some for every station, which is also not so good since we are often out of vehicles (remember, there's only 240 vehicles per type) and some of them will give no income (because some of them will always have same cargo, until station accept food)
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