..,,;;:: Spain set ::;;,,.. 90% taster 1.24 available

Wile E. Coyote · Post by **Wile E. Coyote** » 07 Sep 2005 13:29

Very, very nice! Great work!

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 08 Sep 2005 00:04

Thank you everybody!! I'm proud to work with such a great people

But I don't deserve the compliments, all this is work re-done for a measuring mistake; this has slowened the advance a lot...

Well, here are the last fixed versions. From now on, let the set progress

Here are the electrics:

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 08 Sep 2005 00:06

... and the diesel

Please, krtaylor update all the latest versions to the list

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 08 Sep 2005 09:04

...
And 2 more!

These are new sprites

Finally a small progress. Soon the old generation electrics will be finished.

By the way, now that new industries are out, we can make a well defined industry plan

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 08 Sep 2005 13:35

Yes, we talked about this before. But I think it would have to be as part of a complete climate replacement. We were talking about using Tropics because it is divided into two "zones", of course replacing most of the graphics.

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 08 Sep 2005 14:15

Now I proudly present a train I have been wanting to draw since I saw the photo for the 1st time... I hadn't seen a picture of it before starting this project, and its design caught me inmediately:

Tren Articulado Ligero Goicoechea Oriol: TALGO (1st release!!)

Actually this is the first prototype, and it never entered in service in reality. But this train has such a historic value inside the Railway History in Spain, that this is to be included in the TTD Spain set as a tribute to a revolutionary craftmanship of engineering.
Even Today new models of Talgo are being developed (well, it's the infamous "duck" but...) and even Amtrak uses some TALGOs in certain lines.

About the sprite, the shape is somehow hard to get, but I did my best. I hope that all railwaws fans like this particular commemoration.

cornelius · Post by **cornelius** » 08 Sep 2005 14:27

So is this the front or the back?

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 08 Sep 2005 14:31

Hmm. Teeny.

And I don't think Amtrak runs Talgos anymore.

I'll have to see this in the game. It could be really cool looking.

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 08 Sep 2005 14:37

If I'm not mistaken, this are the wagons very similar to the ones from the TALGO.

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 08 Sep 2005 22:12

cornelius: The round looking part is the back of the train. It has a door from which one could go out, but I'm not quite sure about its usefulness... in some pictures we can see engineer Goicechea going out from that door, which is incredibily near to the floor. But with the train in a station, I don't see the use... emergency maybe?

Irish: Indeed, thos are one of the Amtrak Talgo liveries photos (I've seen another in silver/blue for Las Vegas and one in Amtrak kivery).
If they are currently running I don't know...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 09 Sep 2005 00:45

The door is very useful actually - notice that there's a platform behind it. You go out the door with a lawn chair, and enjoy an excellent view of the passing scenery! Like the old-style balconies on the back of American heavyweight cars. I've actually been on them, and indeed, it's quite nice. Dunno how it'd be at 100mph, which is what they used to do.

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 09 Sep 2005 01:46

Very interesting!

Oh, by the way, here is the Talgo1 allocation scheme, for the coders

I'll explain how should it go:

>Last car is always round glass car
>car after locomotive is always (1Door1Window) car
>after (1d1w), 2 (3Windows)cars are added. Every 2 (3w)cars, 1(1d2w)cars is added
>(2w)cars are for baggage/mail (see industry scheme bellow)

And I did a new Industry scheme:

>cities don't generate mail anymore. There will be a new industry: Post Offices, that will work exactly the same as Banks in original game. Mail will be transported as valuables used to. Only that mail is a more common good to transport than valuables (I found no valuables/armored car pictures for trains of Spain/Japan in modern times...)

>instead of the original mail, cities will generate baggage. Baggage is transported the same way original mail used to. There are a lot of baggage cars in reality.

>there will be a climate with 2 zones in the Spain set: wet (representing the north & center of Spain) and hot (representing south & east)
coal and iron ore only will appear in the wet zone. Olives and citrics, only in the hot zone.

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 09 Sep 2005 03:55

Baggage... I like that concept. It enables me to possible add a reason for something in the Canadian set

Nice looking Talgo man, Looks awesome

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 09 Sep 2005 14:27

Your industry chart looks very nice, with a couple of comments:

1. It makes no sense for gasoline to have to go to a factory. Where does it come from in the first place? If it comes from an oil well, it should be petroeum. If it comes from in import facility and really is gasoline, it should go directly to a city, like goods does.

2. Likewise, I don't see why cement should go to a factory. It should go directly to a city.

3. Didn't you want forests and wood?

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 09 Sep 2005 22:03

gasoline (or petrol, or gas, or fuel, or whatever it is called in each country...) is a very important good in Spain. But we don't have the source (oil) it would make no sense to have oil wells or platforms in the set. But hey, also farms need fertilizers, seeds, and food for the animals, and it's not featured. We have to know that the oil is being brought from the North sea etc. to those refineries, that produce the fuel.
About delivery, I thought that the Factory would need it to produce cars; but indeed, we can have some special buildings that use "gasoline". Actually the both can be at the same time.

Cement going directly to a city? what building should accept it? It is messy enough to need buildings that accept food, goods, wine and gasoline; adding cement would make it crazy.
My idea was sort of what happens with farms: they don't deliver the milk straight to the cities; despite you only want the milk. The cement would work similary: the cement factory only produces the material, then it has to be taken to a plant that packs it and sets it ready to be distributed; or that uses it to produce... something ^^U

About the forests, I don't know, I don't really like too much how they work. And we have already a lot of industries, I don't want the players to get lost in an inifinite industry chart. We can implement them anytime if needed, but I'd rather look for another industry.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 10 Sep 2005 00:08

So, you have refineries as a primary source, that produces gasoline. The gasoline can go to filling stations that appear in the cities, I think someone is already working on those. That's better than going to the factory.

I still don't much like the cement going to the factory. I suppose maybe the factory makes cinder-blocks out of it. What's wrong with taking it to the city? After all, IRL cities do indeed get deliveries of all sorts of different things.

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 10 Sep 2005 01:01

So what building should accept the cement?

We must have enough variety of buildings accepting one cargo. Hotels, bars and restaurants can accept food and wine; shops can accept food and goods; and we can have several filling stations in a city to accept gasoline.
But what building that accepts cement can appear in a siginificant ammount?

I'm thinking of adding some industry that will accept the cement; and add some brick factory too. If it can upgrade a city's growth, it would be cool, but I don't think that's possible at all...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 10 Sep 2005 01:29

Actually I'd prefer to avoid the target-building model, because they darn things move around too much. It's the problem they're running into with the beer and the pubs.

My hope is that, by the time the Spain set gets coded, they'll have my "behaves-like" feature working, where you can just set a given cargo as "behaving like" an official cargo. So, you would set cement as "behaves-like" goods, and therefore anywhere that accepts goods, also accepts cement. Same with gasoline. Problem solved.

Sanchimaru · Post by **Sanchimaru** » 11 Sep 2005 07:28

This time I have been investigating about industries in Spain. Let me introduce you to the new industries table and some of the newly added or changed industries; please check it and point out any problems or features it might had.

Oil Refinery: produces 2 cargos: > fuel; not only gasoline, but also kerosen is a form of fuel. > oil products. There is a variety of crude oil subproducts that have different usages

Chemical Plant: Chemical happens to be one of the most important industrie sin Spain. This is reflected having the "chemicals" cargo being accepted in 4 industries: materiasl factory (to produce diverse consumer goods) ; glass works and textile plant (both to produce tintures) ; and plantation, as fertilizers.

Zinc mine: I decided to drop the coal, and in its palce put the Zinc, which is also a quite important industry, and has a better use in the steel producing process.

Farm: now the farm produces only livestock, which is to be interpreted by the player in many forms: he can trasnport sheeps and cattle to the Textile plant (to provide whool and leather) ; raw milk to the daily to produce lacteous products (yoghurt, cheese, processed milk, etc.) in form of the cargo "food" ; he can also bring the cattle to the food processing plant, to produce the popular iberic ham and a large variety of meat products in the form of "food" too.

Fishing grounds: the fish is brought to the food plant. Canned fish and shellfish are one of Spain's best exportation goods.

Plantation: almost every kind of vegetals is included here: citrics, olives, vegetables, cereals, etc. You can bring them to the food plant (to produce canned fruit and tomato sauce) ; "agriculturals in the from of olives to the olive oil plant (Athene's gift to the Mediterranean, it can't lack here) ; or grapes to the brewery (to produce wine, cava, beer or brandy, in th form of "food")

Cement Factory: indeed, after some research, the cement itself is not so widely used by itself, but more used in the mixture to produce concrete. For this reason, players will trasnport it to the Materials Factory (to produce concrete in the form of "goods")

Glass Works: slowly being replaced by plastic, but still widely in use, due to its resistance and strength compared with it. Here we will bring it to the car factory.

Steel works: Another important industry, mostly in the northern areas. Along with glass, will be brought to the car factories; and so, produce cars in the form of "goods"

Textile plant: Strong industry in the eastern coast of the penninsula. Not only produces clothes nationalwide, importation is also quite profitable. Our task will be to bring those fine goods to the shops in the cities.

* * * * * * * *

And also, I'd like to make a suggestion: every secondary industry should have a minimum production. Despite WE are not providing the materials, it is supposed that if someone founded that textile company, he didn't just invert the money in registering a whole company and building workshops and warehouses, just to sit down and expect someone to bring him the materials

So let's say this textile plant has its own small provider and with that materials income, it can have a minimum production of ridiculous levels; enough as for being transported with regular TTD road vehicles (like 25tones of goods/month). Then, if we lend a hand and bring chemicals and lifestock, we can help boost production.

Think that it would not make sense that a car factory was producing goods if we were providing glass only... (well, they can make glass cars, but...) so the factory has a minimum internal steel income. If we bring steel to it, we will boost production; but not bringing it, won't stop it.

Then, if we are not transporting any of these industries' minimum production, they will bankbreak and close down.

George · Post by **George** » 11 Sep 2005 09:34

Sanchimaru wrote:This time I have been investigating about industries in Spain. Let me introduce you to the new industries table and some of the newly added or changed industries; please check it and point out any problems or features it might had.

Instead of inventing completly new schema, I'd suggest you to create a mod for the general scema, disussed in the general forum.

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