"French Trains Set - freight rolling stock needs drawing

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 20 Apr 2005 06:59

OK, gentleman,

First of all, thanks for the support and the interest.
second, I am in no position at the moment to start any set, unfortunatelly.

The problem is:
No time. Big change coming up in my professional life, so very little left for ttd
my PC at home is an old heep of <censored>
no internet connection at home
no good painting software on my company laptop
no .png creating tool on my company laptop

so for the moment I'm stuck with what I have. Maybe in three months we can consider it again.

I don't want to say that you guys can't start a french set, but please don't expect much from my side.

I actually just wanted to see if the sprites I started are any good. It's my first ever try, so I think I still have a long way to go.

One thing I'm not sure is the size of the thing. As there are some real experts around, maybe somebody can check it?
Krtaylor, what is the usual scale for the trains used in the US-Set?

Oh, and Wallyweb: thanks for the PM

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 20 Apr 2005 10:41

The Irish wrote:Oh, and Wallyweb: thanks for the PM

Thanks for the reply...I understand your position ... In about an hour from now I'll be out the door to put in my own 8 hours.

I'm going to go ahead with this and the pressure will be off you. Keep the occasional eye on the thread and if its a go and when you have something ready, hopefully we'll be here for you. You've already contributed:
- an inspirstion
- an excellent potential source for pictures
- an excellent first graphic

Keep an eye on the thread and even if you're not drawing at the moment, an occasional howdy or critique would be great.

All the best with your new professional developments.

PS ... depending on how this goes, the thread name may need changing and that's in your court as yours is the originating post. I'll PM you if there is any concensus.

To the rest of the folks, I'm going to PM Owen with this little gem of a set to see if he has anything to contribute. Keep the posts comming.

PS - Are there any forum members from France who would be interested in this as well? Local talent is always an advantage. Bienvenu à tous!

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 20 Apr 2005 10:51

Ok. It seams that some people are serious about starting a new french set.

IMO we should probabelly wait till some of the others are finished. There have been many sets that never really took off.
If we do this, we should do it right.
So it means, first of all, a lot of research.

Dalestan has already said that we have a 116 IDs, so we need a list on which engines we need, which wagons, etc.

Anybody any ideas of special french freight wagons? I can't really recall any special freight wagons from France. The are mostly just the usual continental European wagons (similar to BENELUX and Germany).

I will try to start a list.

Aegir · Post by **Aegir** » 20 Apr 2005 10:53

The Irish wrote: no good painting software on my company laptop
no .png creating tool on my company laptop

MS Paint will do the trick most of the time, for converting to .png (Thats only for posting on the forums though, not enough of the TTD graphics tools support .png unfortunatly.) there are heaps of freeware/shareware apps.

Good luck.

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 20 Apr 2005 12:14

Aegir wrote:
The Irish wrote: no good painting software on my company laptop
no .png creating tool on my company laptop
MS Paint will do the trick most of the time, for converting to .png (Thats only for posting on the forums though, not enough of the TTD graphics tools support .png unfortunatly.) there are heaps of freeware/shareware apps.

Good luck.

Yeah, right.... If I would only have the rights to install them...

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 20 Apr 2005 13:07

You have to have the TE, althouh you can sometimes calculate it from other stats. You don't need pricing, because real-world prices don't translate into TTD well; generally you do a usability chart and guesstimate prices from that. We've got some Excel files from other sets that do that sort of calculations.

Post by **orudge** » 20 Apr 2005 14:00

If hosting is required for this set, then I can certainly provide it: PHP, MySQL, etc is available, as well as - for what a set page is likely to need - practically unlimited bandwidth and space. Just let me know if it'd needed, I'd love to see a French set!

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 20 Apr 2005 14:47

Ok, thanks for the offer.
Unfortunatelly, I don't really have a clue about all this...

but there seams A LOT off motivation to go ahead.

As I said, my resources will be "limited"

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 20 Apr 2005 15:25

I would say, the best course of action would be, first, not to try to do any drawing, but simply to assemble the list of trains (locos, wagons, carriages, etc.) that ought to be in the set. This would go in a webpage on Owen's server, with photos, descriptions, links, and stats - basically, like my original HTML tracking tables. I'd say Wallyweb should be in charge of that since he has the most time and is able to do it.

Also, any odds and ends of French sprites that have already been drawn, would be collected and put in the table, to show that they're already done. There are several I know of.

This process will probably take a month, maybe two. In that time, you might find some people joining, and you can go ahead. Or, one of the major sets will finish and you can get some talent from there. Or maybe some French people will join the Forums even!

It's much easier to get a set started if you already have the list; that way an artist can just look at the list and draw something, no need to worry about the rest!

Don't worry about the scale. The TTD scale is necessarily somewhat forced and foreshortened. The width of trains is fixed, and then, you draw the length that seems appropriate.

jvassie · Post by **jvassie** » 20 Apr 2005 15:36

Cool!

Im liking the sound of this!

I have to go to school, but otherwise, im in!

I will probably be able to draw some sprites, when the time comes, and help with writing the html for the website if people would like me too.

Edit: Cheers Owen! With your support, the limits are endless!

Edit 2: If we run out of trains perhaps we could include some from other countries like switzerland, i dont mind!

James

The Irish · Post by **The Irish** » 20 Apr 2005 16:38

thanks for all your tips and I completely agree with Krtaylor.
I have already started a list of all french trains I could find but they are far too much to cover in the set. (many similarities etc) and it might as well not be complete.
I need to do much more research.
I have currently 165 IDs used. So I will have to cut down on them.

Once I'm ready, I will post it here. (or maybe before)

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 20 Apr 2005 16:52

I'm writing a list of trains, too. I agree, there are lots of similarities and only the most representative engines should be chosen.
As soon as it's complete I'll post it here, so we can compare them and set a sketch of a final list.

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 20 Apr 2005 19:52

Awhile back on Usenet, somebody posted a French set. The graphics weren't bad, but were a little 2D in some of the _ views. The page is here. Maybe you could contact the originator and ask if you can use/modify his sprites.

Villem · Post by **Villem** » 20 Apr 2005 19:59

DanMacK wrote:Awhile back on Usenet, somebody posted a French set. The graphics weren't bad, but were a little 2D in some of the _ views. The page is here. Maybe you could contact the originator and ask if you can use/modify his sprites.

Though its just DBSet with new graphics etc slapped over it

Patchman · Post by **Patchman** » 20 Apr 2005 20:01

Akalamanaia wrote:Though its just DBSet with new graphics etc slapped over it

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 20 Apr 2005 20:14

Well, we don't care about the coding, of course you would want to completely re-code it. That would eliminate MB problems. I think the graphics are original, or at least not based off of MB's work. The question is, are the graphics worth saving? I don't know enough about the French trains to know how accurate they are. For sure, you'd need lots more of them. But this might give you a jump-start to the set. Definitely you should try to get permission from the artist to use them - you cna just decompile them out of the GRF.

Snail · Post by **Snail** » 20 Apr 2005 20:37

I saw that webpage: I really didn't know someone already developed a french set.
Those engines aren't bad at all: they might be a great starting point. I agree, they're a bit 2-d and maybe would need some more shading, especially the "danseuses", like the BB9300, and the older ones.

One thing we should change in that set is the engines' length: if I see correctly, it's the same for all, and that should definitely be changed, otherwise the "nez cassés" (BB7200's) would look really weird and unrealistic.
Another thing is that different liveries occupy different slots, and that should be changed too, maybe using the same system as the USSet.
Also, the steamers are missing, along with most part of the EMUs.

On the other hand, the carriages are well done.

krtaylor · Post by **krtaylor** » 20 Apr 2005 20:42

It's a good start, I'd say you have maybe 1/4 of a set there.

France is of course all temperate, so you only have to do one set's worth. You can make different liveries randomized as we do in the US set, or you could make them refittable as the Planeset is trying to do.

BTW, we just uploaded the next version of the US set.

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 20 Apr 2005 21:05

Ok folks ... this train is pulling out of the station and it looks like we've got an open track all the way to Paris

The Irish ... glad to see your're involved. I agree with yours and some of the other comments re starting off slow. The way I figure, we take this one step at a time and we get it right the first time.
Owen ... thanks for the space ... much appreciated ... which versions PHP and MySQL? Some coding diffs between the versions.
krtaylor ... thanks for the input and support man ... much appreciated. How can I get the templates for a look see?
snail ... love your resources ... and fast too! (snail? more like jackrabbit

)
jamesvassie ... always need artists ... and you have resources too? Wow!
Purno, Sanchimaru, DaleStan, DanMack, Aegir, Akalamanaia, Patchman, ... all busy with lots of other stuff, but still a moment to give this a glance and some hints and direction ... life doesn't get any better.
thompson_fan ... thanks for the encouragement ... greatly appreciated.
The Irish ... I think we're going to do you proud.

I have to step out for an hour or so but I'll sign back on this evening (In Atlantic Canada anyway) with some thoughts for consideration and discussion.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part 2 - I'm back!

Let me introduce myself a bit.
I'm not a TTDX artist or coder so I won't be telling people how to do things.
I may have an occasional suggestion or request or two and if I'm out of line, well, I do enjoy a good flame.

My talent is in web page design ... html, dhtml, javascript, css, as long as its W3C compliant, so if I break your IE, I'm sorry.

I have also played with PHP and MySQL and experimented with some DB driven web site stuff on an Apache localhost on my PC.
What I will do is provide you contributors with a stable and well organized environment where you can upload and track your work and see what the rest of the team is about.
I have some templates from krtaylor which I will be adapting to our needs.
Hang on to your stuff for the moment and I'll let you know as soon as the server is ready.
What are our needs? How about some suggestions? I'm always open to those and any idea, even if its not used right away, is a good one, so post away!

My availability ... see my sig below ... I'm in Atlantic Canada so I may very well be still asleep when some of you are on your lunch breaks, and I do have a 9 to 5 dayjob in an internet restricted (security) area, but I'll try keep as available as possible.(just let me out for the occasional meal ok?):)
Also ... I need names so post an "I'm In" message with your talent and I'll add them below as an edit to this post. I think I have the first one now

===============================================
The team:
The Irish ... founder and artist
===============================================

wallyweb · Post by **wallyweb** » 20 Apr 2005 23:11

krtaylor wrote:France is of course all temperate

This is temperate?

krtaylor wrote:BTW, we just uploaded the next version of the US set.

Uhoh ... there goes my availability all shot to heck

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