Busstop Picture / Dev Topic

[wallyweb]

That is what I tried to explain ! Thank you Wallyweb.

Anytime

So we could have bus station / bus stop and lorry bay / mail stop.

I think that one would be a little more difficult to code as the bus and lorry stations are not extendable like the train stations. I think eis_os covered this earlier in the thread, however a mail stop adjacent to a bus stop would be usefull.

[fire87]

Umm.. This is probably a dumb question but.. Where do I find it? I want to download it and use it, but I can't find it And yes, you can all laugh about me now
I'm just not so good in searching so..

[Mek]

just downloaded the latest alpha

[fire87]

So it is included in the latest alpha?
Ok then.. Thanks

[eis_os]

Some news:

I think I fixed buildonslopes with busstops. Take some time because while I was at buildonslopes I experimental added something it.

I can replicate the vehicle wait problem, but have not found the error why they don't enter the busstops...

[eis_os]

Busstops on slope:

[nosen]

nice!

[SHADOW-XIII]

whoa .... you also made even-higher-slopes I always wanted them to

[eis_os]

no, that aren't higher slopes, no, but that are steepslopes you see there (works only with rail)

[hovering teacup]

that are steepslopes you see there (works only with rail)

amazing!absolutely amazing that one!
well then will that mean the steep slopes will accept the bridge pillars also?

[Prof. Frink]

<+Prof_Frink> eis_os: will your buildonsteepslopes patch also allow bridges over steep slopes?
<@eis_os> no
<+Prof_Frink> ah well
<@eis_os> the reason is there are many things with building under bridges will break
<@eis_os> so I disabled that
<@eis_os> the higherbridges patch for TTDPatch is already complex enough

[eis_os]

Huh?

If it had worked well It would be already in higherbridges, no I won't change the limits of higherbridges, It had reasons why I have disabled steep slopes.
Even If it would work Bridges wouldn't very good looking with the current pillar support.

PS: and again: roads aren't possible... I already cheat A LOT slope functions Marcin made...

[hovering teacup]

ah ok
i was making a parallelism between the build-on-slope and the higher bridge cos the condition of use was the same. that similitude was only of apperance, then.

[krtaylor]

I'm quite content with bridges the way they are now, thanks eis_os.

[Raichase]

Whoa, thats awesome! I think you enjoy doing the impossible, just to shock and amaze everyone .

Great work as always Oskar!

[wallyweb]

I think you enjoy doing the impossible

Do not go here Oskar! We might never see you again.

[Aya]

Local Mode = Even it's not the right station mentioned in the order it will stop and load/unload
Express Mode = If the station and the station in the order aren't the same -> don't stop

This sounds almost identical to ttdpatch.cfg's "nonstop" flag used for trains, maybe you could use that to switch between the two modes. With the "nonstop" flag enabled, I'm guessing that you can also use bus-stops to route traffic, much like the new signal-box in the latest alpha.

I've found bus-stops to be a little bit useless on their own. Imagine the following configurations:

Code: Select all

Key:-

= -> whole road tile running left-right
: -> half road tile runing left-right
X -> bus-stop running left-right
> -> bus-station with entrance on the left
< -> bus-station with entrance on the right

Configuration 1: ====X========X====
Configuration 2:     X========X
Configuration 3:    :X========X:
Configuration 4:    =X========X=
Configuration 5:     <========>

Note: I've placed eight road tiles between the bus-stops so that the catchment areas are contiguous. Also note, I'm using alpha 46, so some of this stuff may be different in alpha 47.

With configuration 1, If I tell a bus to stop at both stops, it will drive all the way to the end of the road before turning around, which seems unnecessary.

With configurations 2 and 3, the bus will get stuck at the bus-stop and never leave until you convert them to configuration 4. This feels like a bug.

Only configuration 4 will produce the optimal result using only bus-stops, i.e. the bus drives over the minimum amount of road between stops. Problem is, it won't stay like that forever. Since towns like to extend their roads every so often, it'll soon turn into a configuration 1 situation.

Now, unless buses can turn around inside bus-stops (depending on the next stop in its route), then configuration 5 (using bus-stations) is the most optimal, especially as it allows loading multiple buses at the same time, but I guess that was not the point of bus-stops.

Bear in mind that a vaguely "realistic" town configuration would probably have a bus-station close to the center of town (probably attached to a railway station and/or airport), and several bus-stops further out. Alternatively, if it's not possible to build a railway station or airport close to the center, there would probably be a bus-station attached to them anyway.

Also bear in mind that it's probably most optimal to operate all the bus-stops as feeder services to a railway-station, then use a train to take them further away for more cash.

Still. apart from all that, bus-stops are a neat idea, and at the very least could be used to explicitly route traffic.

Comments?

[krtaylor]

IRL, it's rare for busses to turn around right at the bus stop, in the middle of the road. Generally they go around the block. I bear this in mind when I'm placing them.

[eis_os]

Well I have mentioned it several times in the IRC channel but it wasn't added to the changelog. A vehicle can't reverse on a station <point>, it would screw up. (try to press the reverse button on a bus at busstation, it won't let you do it)

Half roads really have only purporse for building.
(An vehicle can't access it) So they will never work.

A road vehicle will never reverse on a road. There are two exceptions, it gets stuck on an end road or you say it to reverse... Thats why the TTD AI builds roundabout traffic roads...

Busstops:
You only need to replace a road piece in a town.
Trucks can use it as normal roads.
AI vehicles can use it as normal roads

For the ends of the line you would surely build busstations...

PS: You won't put busstations at the road ends normally or you like really small towns...

[Aya]

A vehicle can't reverse on a station <point>, it would screw up. (try to press the reverse button on a bus at busstation, it won't let you do it)

I had tried it, and found it to not work, I was really wondering if it was *possible* to code. As I see it the only actual difference between a bus-stop and a bus-station is that a bus-stop can be entered from to 2 directions, compared to a bus station's 1 direction.

Now, since all traffic must therefore turn around in a bus station, it will calculate a new optimum route to the next stop, but since buses are not able to turn around at bus stops, the route it takes after leaving may not be optimal. This is basically analagous to a terminus rail-station vs. a ro-ro rail-station (unless you've set "Trains reverse at end of line and stations". I assume this setting doesn't affect bus-stop behaviour). This would imply that bus-stops would become more optimal if buses were able to reverse *if* it presented a shorter path to its next destination.

Problem is, I don't know the TTDPatch codebase very well, so I'm not sure what the fundamental limitations of the game are, but as an example, would it be possible to code a bus-stop with more than 2 entrances (i.e. on a T-junction or crossroads)?

PS: You won't put busstations at the road ends normally or you like really small towns...

Usually I don't bother using buses, but I recently started playing the game from 1930, and buses were really all you could build. At the start of the game, money is tight and town sizes small, so you have to be careful where you place bus stations. I figured the cheapest way was to replace a couple of road tiles with bus-stops, but to get the routing to work, you may have to change the road layout slightly. Not a big problem. I can work around that.

Regarding the issue of a bus getting stuck at a bus-stop at the end of a road. I can imagine a possible exploit for that:

1. Wait until a bus is at the stop.
2. Destroy the piece of road in front of the bus (this should be possible if the road is owned by the town, not the player)
3. Quickly replace it with something the other player can't destroy (a piece of railroad track should suffice).
4. The bus will be stuck *forever*. The player cannot return the bus to the depot. The bus cannot reverse, and the bus-stop can't be destroyed as long as the bus is stuck there.

It occurs to me the same exploit is possible with bus-stations. Hmm. I wonder if the AI players might "accidentally" do this to you when they're rearranging a town.

To sum up, all I'm saying is: It would be nice if buses could turn around at bus-stops (and have bus-stops on T-junctions and crossroads), but if it's too awkward to code, then don't worry about it.