George's Long vehicles V4 beta4 is out (07 sep 2007)

[DanMacK]

I've been doing some research on buses and have decided (in addition to all else I'm doing), to draw some North American style buses. George has the Scenicruiser, and that's aan excellent addition, although aside fom it and my 1920's era bus, not much is around. If we have North American trains(be it the CanSet or USSet), we need all of the cool art-deco and streamlined buses as well.

I also figured George had enough drawing work I'll draw them though if you want to code them George...

I'm planning about 10 for various tasks, What I've got planned sofar is as follows.

1920-1935 - Fageol (Flxible) Bus - Will use my existing "GMC" bus for this
1930-1940 - GMC "250" style Bus
1940-1960 - GMC "Old Look" Bus
1947-1955 - ACF/Brill IC41 Intercity Bus
1959-1986 - GMC "New Look" Also called "Fishbowls"
1985-1995 - GMC/MCI "Classic"

I'm thinking along with the Scenicruiser, also having a larger MCI (Motor Coach Ind.) Greyhound as well as a couple more transit buses, Probably the RTS and an Orion or two

Still thinking about post New Look buses, but I've got a few in mind. I was thinking of it eventually being a separate set however. Feel free to add my New Look though.

Attached below is a GMC New Look spriteset (w/all neccessary info), my favourite type of bus.

I'll get the info for each bus as I draw it.

[Snail]

Snail wrote:

Ok, here are some facts about the SC10
1979: Renault acquires Saviem and the bus changes name (Renault SC10xx instead of Saviem SC10xx).

It can not be coded correctly

I see... well, then the overall name could remain "Saviem SC10" as it'd be more historically appropriate. Maybe the single variants (like U, UM etc) could be selectable through the refitting option?

[krtaylor]

Yes, I think adding those US busses will be good.

[George]

I've been doing some research on buses and have decided (in addition to all else I'm doing), to draw some North American style buses. George has the Scenicruiser, and that's aan excellent addition, although aside fom it and my 1920's era bus, not much is around. If we have North American trains(be it the CanSet or USSet), we need all of the cool art-deco and streamlined buses as well.
I also figured George had enough drawing work I'll draw them though if you want to code them George... I'm planning about 10 for various tasks, What I've got planned sofar is as follows.
1920-1935 - Fageol (Flxible) Bus - Will use my existing "GMC" bus for this
1930-1940 - GMC "250" style Bus
1940-1960 - GMC "Old Look" Bus
1947-1955 - ACF/Brill IC41 Intercity Bus
1959-1986 - GMC "New Look" Also called "Fishbowls"
1985-1995 - GMC/MCI "Classic"
I'm thinking along with the Scenicruiser, also having a larger MCI (Motor Coach Ind.) Greyhound as well as a couple more transit buses, Probably the RTS and an Orion or two
Still thinking about post New Look buses, but I've got a few in mind. I was thinking of it eventually being a separate set however. Feel free to add my New Look though. Attached below is a GMC New Look spriteset (w/all neccessary info), my favourite type of bus.I'll get the info for each bus as I draw it.

Ok. For now I'd suggest to include new buses into LV set. To fit best I ask you to use 3.3px/meter scale. that means a 12 meter bus has 40 px wide in horisontal direction, 32 pixels wide (6+26) in diagonal direction

[George]

Snail wrote:

Ok, here are some facts about the SC10
1979: Renault acquires Saviem and the bus changes name (Renault SC10xx instead of Saviem SC10xx).

It can not be coded correctly

I see... well, then the overall name could remain "Saviem SC10" as it'd be more historically appropriate. Maybe the single variants (like U, UM etc) could be selectable through the refitting option?

Yes. I can also write "Renault" after the capacity.

I've uploaded updated version of the long buses. You can see Inbus U210, U210FT, AU280FT, AS280FT there. I didn't find the drawing for S210 (did I missed it or have nor senв to me?) and stil not sure about small version. Is it Inbus S150/U150 or GMG Siccar 181C?

2ALL:
I have added czech buses by Greyfur. Please have a look.How do you think, do they fit?

I'd also add buses by DanMacK as soon as I can

[DanMacK]

I've been doing some research on buses and have decided (in addition to all else I'm doing), to draw some North American style buses. George has the Scenicruiser, and that's aan excellent addition, although aside fom it and my 1920's era bus, not much is around. If we have North American trains(be it the CanSet or USSet), we need all of the cool art-deco and streamlined buses as well.
I also figured George had enough drawing work I'll draw them though if you want to code them George... I'm planning about 10 for various tasks, What I've got planned sofar is as follows.
1920-1935 - Fageol (Flxible) Bus - Will use my existing "GMC" bus for this
1930-1940 - GMC "250" style Bus
1940-1960 - GMC "Old Look" Bus
1947-1955 - ACF/Brill IC41 Intercity Bus
1959-1986 - GMC "New Look" Also called "Fishbowls"
1985-1995 - GMC/MCI "Classic"
I'm thinking along with the Scenicruiser, also having a larger MCI (Motor Coach Ind.) Greyhound as well as a couple more transit buses, Probably the RTS and an Orion or two
Still thinking about post New Look buses, but I've got a few in mind. I was thinking of it eventually being a separate set however. Feel free to add my New Look though. Attached below is a GMC New Look spriteset (w/all neccessary info), my favourite type of bus.I'll get the info for each bus as I draw it.

Ok. For now I'd suggest to include new buses into LV set. To fit best I ask you to use 3.3px/meter scale. that means a 12 meter bus has 40 px wide in horisontal direction, 32 pixels wide (6+26) in diagonal direction

Basically, I believe this works out to 1px/ft. I tried to keep the GMC New Look to the same scale.

[krtaylor]

Oh, and you can't put the girls on American busses, it wouldn't be proper.

[Snail]

Yes. I can also write "Renault" after the capacity.

So the final name would be "Saviem SC10 R Renault"?

I've uploaded updated version of the long buses. You can see Inbus U210, U210FT, AU280FT, AS280FT there.

I noticed! Great job, they all look really good.
I still couldn't find the time to download and test them, but the pics you posted are neat. On the AU/AS280FT's diagonal view though, isn't the third door (the one just before the 3rd axle) a bit too "attached" to the wheel? Maybe it'd look a bit better if it were put a little more forward, what do you think?

I didn't find the drawing for S210 (did I missed it or have nor senв to me?)

Honestly I can't check now, as I've got the drawings on another computer, but all I can remember was finding some pics of the S210 and data about its capacity and speed (40 sitting + 60 standing, 80 km/h). I'll try to see if I've got a drawing too. However, would it really be a problem to draw the sprite without a specific drawing? The S210's bodywork was exactly the same as the three-door U210's one, with the exception that the rear door was missing. You could use the AS280FT's drawing to model the bus' back right (behind the last axle), which would be the only difference. It'd be a shame to leave it out

and stil not sure about small version. Is it Inbus S150/U150 or GMG Siccar 181C?

The final name was Inbus S150/U150, which changed to S150FT/U150FT after the articulated version had been launched in around 1983 (same as the larger U/S210). The other name you found on the drawing was referred to a prototype (you can see the drawing was done in 1978, the same year when the first units were made). Siccar was one of the firms which would build the model, as the Inbus name referred to a joint-venture of many firms that would produce buses together. So Siccar 181C was that particular firm's "official" name, but the model was known as S/U150. As in the larger models, the S designed the two-door variant (drawn) and the U the three-door one (looked the same as the S, but it featured a third door, as large as the second one, which replaced the last window).

As for liveries, could you let the colored stripe appear after 1983, when the AU/AS280FT's where introduced and the other models' name gained the FT suffix? Historically, until that date, that stripe was always black, or there was no stripe at all.
I'd also let some AS280FT's appear in a blue livery, although not too frequently (let's say about 1/8 of the times) if possible...

If you need any info when you start drawing the 421's, feel free to ask!

[George]

Oh, and you can't put the girls on American busses, it wouldn't be proper.

For 1920-1970 buses yes. For 1970- buses why not? In DanMack's list 1985-1995 - GMC/MCI "Classic" would look Ok with a girl on the side

[George]

Yes. I can also write "Renault" after the capacity.

So the final name would be "Saviem SC10 R Renault"?

No, the name will stay "Saviem SC10". And the capacity will be written as "xx passengers (Renault SC10 R)"

I've uploaded updated version of the long buses. You can see Inbus U210, U210FT, AU280FT, AS280FT there.

I noticed! Great job, they all look really good.

I tried. But you can see how much time it takes. I hope you like the result. You did a good research and I tried to make as good graphics as your research. As you also can see, U210(FT) is available since 1981 while AU(S)280FT is available since 1985. I've used this way of coding for the first time and not sure if it works 100% properly, but I hope you'll test it

I still couldn't find the time to download and test them, but the pics you posted are neat. On the AU/AS280FT's diagonal view though, isn't the third door (the one just before the 3rd axle) a bit too "attached" to the wheel? Maybe it'd look a bit better if it were put a little more forward, what do you think?

On the drawing it is near. But if you think it will look better if I move it, just write me and I shall change it, it is not hard.

I didn't find the drawing for S210 (did I missed it or have nor send to me?)

Honestly I can't check now, as I've got the drawings on another computer, but all I can remember was finding some pics of the S210 and data about its capacity and speed (40 sitting + 60 standing, 80 km/h). I'll try to see if I've got a drawing too. However, would it really be a problem to draw the sprite without a specific drawing? The S210's bodywork was exactly the same as the three-door U210's one, with the exception that the rear door was missing. You could use the AS280FT's drawing to model the bus' back right (behind the last axle), which would be the only difference. It'd be a shame to leave it out

I can if you are sure, that the rare part is the exactly same as AS280FT's

and stil not sure about small version. Is it Inbus S150/U150 or GMG Siccar 181C?

The final name was Inbus S150/U150, which changed to S150FT/U150FT after the articulated version had been launched in around 1983 (same as the larger U/S210). The other name you found on the drawing was referred to a prototype (you can see the drawing was done in 1978, the same year when the first units were made).

You mean I have to move starting year from 1981 to 1979?

Siccar was one of the firms which would build the model, as the Inbus name referred to a joint-venture of many firms that would produce buses together. So Siccar 181C was that particular firm's "official" name, but the model was known as S/U150.

For me Siccar sound better then Inbus But if we decided to call it Inbus 2xx series, it should be Inbus U(S)150 then

As in the larger models, the S designed the two-door variant (drawn) and the U the three-door one (looked the same as the S, but it featured a third door, as large as the second one, which replaced the last window).

I use U210 name for 3 door version and U210FT for 4 door version. If S210 and S210FT would have 2 doors both, what should be the graphical difference?

As for liveries, could you let the coloured stripe appear after 1983, when the AU/AS280FT's where introduced and the other models' name gained the FT suffix? Historically, until that date, that stripe was always black, or there was no stripe at all.

If you will suggest other place for players colour (roof, for example, or the whole body) than ok. If there is no place for player colours - then I don't like the idea

I'd also let some AS280FT's appear in a blue livery, although not too frequently (let's say about 1/8 of the times) if possible...

1/2, 1/4, 3/4, 1/8, 3/8, 5/8, 7/8 ... are possible

If you need any info when you start drawing the 421's, feel free to ask!

Sure. I'll start it tomorrow.

[George]

Ok. For now I'd suggest to include new buses into LV set. To fit best I ask you to use 3.3px/meter scale. that means a 12 meter bus has 40 px wide in horisontal direction, 32 pixels wide (6+26) in diagonal direction

Basically, I believe this works out to 1px/ft. I tried to keep the GMC New Look to the same scale.

Ok.

About the bus, you have posted above. It has no shading on the sides. The views in \ and / direction have the same graphics and colours on the sides (only doors are drawn to make the difference). If you will look my buses \ direction is made 1 tone darker, than / direction. Could you also use this rule for your graphis?

[Snail]

No, the name will stay "Saviem SC10". And the capacity will be written as "xx passengers (Renault SC10 R)"

Sounds good. It'd be cool if it were the default variant from 1981 onwards.

As you also can see, U210(FT) is available since 1981 while AU(S)280FT is available since 1985. I've used this way of coding for the first time and not sure if it works 100% properly, but I hope you'll test it.[/qupte]
Done it, it works fine (I used the year cheats to test though, as I had to start a new game).

On the drawing it is near. But if you think it will look better if I move it, just write me and I shall change it, it is not hard.

True, I've tested the buses and I think putting it more forward would spoil the proportions. I think this is the best result we can get in 40 pixels

I can if you are sure, that the rare part is the exactly same as AS280FT's

I'm quite sure it was. They worked with standardized parts to keep the construction costs under a limit. I've attached a couple of pics which shows an S210's and an AS280's rear right parts, you can see they're the same behind the last axle. On the left part though, the S210's rear featured the same grill as the U210 (which was used to cool the engine down and which I was glad to see on your drawings).

You mean I have to move starting year from 1981 to 1979?

Actually, yes, if it's not too late / hard to do it. The first prototypes were made in 1978 and the first models were shipped in early 1979. 1981 was the year in which Milan started buying them, but other companies had some already (sorry). This applies to U/S150 - U/S210. 1985 for the 280's is fine though. What did you choose as end of production?

[I use U210 name for 3 door version and U210FT for 4 door version. If S210 and S210FT would have 2 doors both, what should be the graphical difference?

Well, the FT suffix was more of a matter of time than else. The letters standed for a kind of govt. agreement about new buses' compulsory characteristics, and it meant the models were compliant to them. So both the 3-door and 4-door variant started in 1979 with the U210 name and in 1983 they changed their name to U210FT. The FT version's changes were most in the interiors (guess capacity was the same, but the places displacement changed) and in some minor details as the tail lights (I've attached pics of old and new design, basically they were larger after 1985) and livery issues like the stripe I told you about (companies applied them after FT models were introduced). Roofs were gray all times. This applies to the S210 and U/S150 too (the articulated ones were "born" FT). So I guess it's up to you (you're the designer! ), maybe you can just change the name after 1985 with the introduction of AU/AS280FT's and maybe change the taillights on the sprite if you dont feel like removing the stripe... Historically though, calling the 3-door version U210 and the 4-door one U210FT would be inaccurate. Maybe writing "xx passengers (3-door U210(FT))" and "xx passengers (4-door U210(FT))" would do the trick.
If you don't like the idea, then I'd say put FT all times.

For me Siccar sound better then Inbus But if we decided to call it Inbus 2xx series, it should be Inbus U(S)150 then

Well, Siccar was only one of the firms producing those things in the joint venture. There were others including BCF (same firm which produced bodyworks for 421's too), but there was no difference whatsoever. Nor the chassis' producer's name appeared on them (I never heard of Siccar before doing this research ). So if you want you can change the names to "Siccar 177" (U210), "Siccar 181" (U150) and "Siccar 383" (AU280), although they'd be a bit too "technical", they'd refer to part of the production and they wouldn't tell much. Anyone knowing these models would say, "hey.. it's an Inbus" when looking at them
As a series name, I'd suggest "Inbus 150/210/280" if it's not too long.

1/2, 1/4, 3/4, 1/8, 3/8, 5/8, 7/8 ... are possible

Ok. I'd say 1/8 as one would have to really try to see one, as it was in reality.

Great job anyway, keep it up... BTW, why some new Skoda and Ikarus models cost like 10x as much as other buses? Is that an export fee socialist governments would apply to foreign companies wanting to get their busses?

[George]

4-door one U210FT would be inaccurate. Maybe writing "xx passengers (3-door U210(FT))" and "xx passengers (4-door U210(FT))" would do the trick. If you don't like the idea, then I'd say put FT all times.

I'll use FT text then for all the models

BTW, why some new Skoda and Ikarus models cost like 10x as much as other buses? Is that an export fee socialist governments would apply to foreign companies wanting to get their busses?

I simply did not select cost for them.

[Snail]

I'll use FT text then for all the models

Ok.

Maybe I missed something, but is the articulated version of the OmniLink included?

[DanMacK]

You know George, I would have noticed that eventually... *Slaps Forehead*

Will be remedied soon. I'm also working on the Old Look and the Brill IC-41 coach.

[DanMacK]

Here's the revised GMC New Look - Also tweaked the roof a bit.

Also attached is the in-progress on the Brill/ACF IC-41. The livery in the photo is for TrailWays, and I may do that livery (and a straight silverside w/stripe) instead of Company Colour.

[Snail]

Hi George,
I've been testing those buses for a while. They work fine, the sprites especially are great.

The only thing that made me more and more perplex was the matter of names. I wouldn't like to sound like mr. prick here, but I was thinking your doubts were right - maybe we should call the bus "Siccar 177/181/383" AND add the "Inbus" name to all the possible refitting variants (like "3-door U210FT", "AU280FT" etc).
Why? Well, since the "refitting" name always appears after capacity, I guess it'd be more accurate to have both the technical chassis name (Siccar) and the model name (Inbus) to show up in the vehicle window. So one buys a Siccar chassis and then, through refitting, decides which Inbus model to "build" on, just like companies did in reality.
I'm sorry about this, but I noticed this only by testing. And since I can see (and appreciate) that you're putting every effort to make your set as accurate as possible, I thought this would be the best final solution.
Also, I know there were some other models built on Siccar xxx chassis, which we might want to add in the future...

Also, I noticed another thing. At the moment, refitting from a U210 to an AU280 costs no money. Is it a feature you have to tweak yet? Because I guess an 18-meters bus would cost more than a 12-meter one. Also, when you design the U/S150 variants, I guess they'd have to cost less than the 210 (negative refitting cost?). Even maintenance costs might be different, but maybe that's a matter of callbacks.

[lws1984]

I don't want to bug you, but is the Routemaster done yet?

[George]

I don't want to bug you, but is the Routemaster done yet?

It is in the TODO list, but, because you did not find drawings, it has lower priority, than Fiat 421 and Saviem SC 10

[George]

The only thing that made me more and more perplex was the matter of names. I wouldn't like to sound like mr. prick here, but I was thinking your doubts were right - maybe we should call the bus "Siccar 177/181/383" AND add the "Inbus" name to all the possible refitting variants (like "3-door U210FT", "AU280FT" etc).
Why? Well, since the "refitting" name always appears after capacity, I guess it'd be more accurate to have both the technical chassis name (Siccar) and the model name (Inbus) to show up in the vehicle window. So one buys a Siccar chassis and then, through refitting, decides which Inbus model to "build" on, just like companies did in reality.
I'm sorry about this, but I noticed this only by testing. And since I can see (and appreciate) that you're putting every effort to make your set as accurate as possible, I thought this would be the best final solution.
Also, I know there were some other models built on Siccar xxx chassis, which we might want to add in the future...

Ok. So, what should I write in the purchase menu and what after capacity?
Name="Siccar 177/181/383"
Refit names="Inbus U150FT", "Inbus S150FT", "Inbus U210FT", "Inbus S210FT", "Inbus AU280FT", "Inbus AS210FT"?

Also, I noticed another thing. At the moment, refitting from a U210 to an AU280 costs no money. Is it a feature you have to tweak yet? Because I guess an 18-meters bus would cost more than a 12-meter one.

I asked Josef to do it many times, but there is no solution now. I hope someday.

Also, when you design the U/S150 variants, I guess they'd have to cost less than the 210 (negative refitting cost?).

In the future. Now

Even maintenance costs might be different, but maybe that's a matter of callbacks.

There is no callback for it now, but I hope for it in the some future.