New South Wales Rail Set[Testers Needed!]

[Raven]

didn't know you used inches there! (got to get some translating tables...)

In the japan set everything but shinkansens is narrow (really narrow and really small!!!) but small locomotives are hardly seen in ttd because of the lack of detail; so my two cents are, draw (you me or whoever) a narrow gauge locomotive as to fit the new (1 sprite narrower) tracks, then if you like the result we could then think about a solution. Until then i say wait, cause i had to REPEAT ( ) the whole bumch of steamers of the japset because they were too little.
the decision in there was to keep all locos as if they were standard.

however somo locos we use in spain are japanese (here the gauge is 0,6 m wider, jeeez!) (sorry for not translating to inches, dunno how still) so big locos would fit in standard gauge far better.

that was a mess....

these are the main ideas
having both gauges is nice
test if narrow locomotives should be drawn full size available or not

[tenacioustheforesaken]

the wider the guage, the more stable track. narrow gauge track is the least expensive of all. europe is mostly standard gauge track. and the loading gauge depends on where it was built. plus, theres about 3 different types of narrow gauge in australia. and IF narrow gauge was the best, we wouldnt be using standard, would we?

if you use all 3 track types for broad,standard and narrow, then you wont beable to have elec. track, and it would be semi pointless.

[mdhowe]

didn't know you used inches there! (got to get some translating tables...)

We don't, we've used metric for years. Some people just like to live in the past.

[DaleStan]

(here the gauge is 0,6 m wider, jeeez!) (sorry for not translating to inches, dunno how still)

google:0.6 m in inches
0.6 meters = 23.6220472 inches
Works just as well with a comma.

[Purno]

Maybe use maglev as narrow guage? Problem is that AI will think narrow gauge is better than normal track.

In Australia Narrow Gauge is better than other Gauge's, although more expensive. It has a much larger loading gauge than any other gauge, and is more stable at high speeds. You must remember that our narrow gauge purno, is the same gauge as most of europe.

In that case it's still somewhat problematic too add it. Your 'narrow gauge' needs electrified and unelectrified mode? While the whider gauge is 'bad'?

You can't replace Maglev by the whider gauge unless you sacrifise the electric/unelectric track setting. Or you should make 'narrow gauge' only not electrified and whider gauge in unelectrified and electrified mode.

I know it sounds complicated

[BobDendry]

Or we could make it a triple guage track!
Edit: Actually that isn't that bad an idea. Except for the trucks being on the wrong locos, which would look bad. Hmmm. Is there a better way?

[Lightglobe]

Is there a better way?

Yeah just to leave it at one guage. But of course ttdx_artist is now going to come on here and start going off at me about how we HAVE to have more than one gauge. Whatever mate. You got a really bad atitude about everyone else on this forum. You talk to everyone like they know nothing and laugh and swear at people when they make a mistake. Grow up.

[ttdx_artist]

Arggghhhhhh, What is wrong with everyone? Why should we be like the rest of the "sheep" and have 1 gauge, we've all been there and done it, and I'm getting really bored of it. It would look really stupid if we had a QR loco, pulling VR Spirit Cars, with a WAGR Car Carrier on the end, AGREE?!? Thats why we should make different gauges, I am only trying to add realism to the game, giving a player 3 options is 3 times the amount of playability, can't anyone see this? If you all want to make a Standard Gauge Set, go ahead, it doesn't bother me at all, I'm just trying to make it fun, and a challenge. But everything seems to f**king hard for you all! Com'on guys, do something different, be original.

And in regards to narrow gauge being better than standard, the only reason that all of australia doesn't use narrow gauge is because it is too late to replace track, if the dicition was made 100 yrs ago, every state would be Narrow Gauge, but if you look into Australia's history, each state was run by different government parties, and non of them could agree on 1 gauge, so they all butted heads and did their own thing. Thats why we dont all use narrow gauge.

And as for drawing narrow gauge trains, they are actually the same dimentions as standard and broad gauge, some are even bigger. So you wouldn't have to change the size of vehicles, just the track so it can be easily picked apart. And Narrow gauge would be all Electrified, mainly because A LOT of the Narrow Gauge loco's in the list are electrics, and they're is only a very small number in other gauges, so standard and broad won't be electrified. Again I'll say, other than in Suburban Areas and the Blue Mountains, there is no electric standard or broad gauge track. Not enough to make different rails for.

[DaleStan]

It seems to me that this can be solved in a couple relatively simple ways. All of them revolve around the fact that whitehandindustries started this project, and if you don't like his decisions, you can deal with them, or start your own project.

1. WhiteHand makes a decision, everybody agrees to abide by it.
2. Split up, and have researchers determine train lists for each possibility, and then come back together and pitch the list to the Powers That Be (aka WhiteHand).
3. You refuse to obey WhiteHand, and this falls apart for lack of progress and/or talent

I doubt many of you realize the power of NFO. It is quite possible to code such that train cars will appear differently depending on which engine they're behind, including having them simply refuse to appear at all.

WhiteHand? What's the call? Multiple gauges or not?

This petty bickering is keeping anyone from doing any real work.

If you can get some stats and graphics together, soon, I'll code. But until you agree to obey one person, who in turn must agree to make decisions like this, this set will go NOWHERE!!

[DanMacK]

OK, the dilemma here is similar to what I was thinking for the Canadian set. Canada had some (not much albeit) narrow gauge railways and enough unique locos to make a Narrow gauge addition to the set. I was planning to have the following types of tracks in the CanSet, and this is what I'd suggest for the AusSet => Electrified Standard, Standard and Narrow to replace the Monorail/Maglev combo.

Main reasoning for this, is somebody would have to talk to MB about modifying the elrails.grf for Narrow gauge. If somebosy can convince him to let you do it, then by all means. Or you can draw the NG Catenary yourself.

Just a thought,

[ttdx_artist]

Australia doesnt have many electric trains, so whats the point of electric tracks? Its not like the DBset where 90% is electrics, the ausset has about 7 electrics out of 75 locos.

Ok, how about having a narrow gauge track, standard gauge track, and dual gauge track? That way all the boring people can build dual gauge and run everything on it, and the smart fun people can use seperate networks with different options... and just because this is WhiteHands thread doesnt make him boss... no one is, but someone has to stand up and do something, make all the decisions. KRTaylor basically runs the JapSet, but it isnt his thread that they are using.

[DanMacK]

While there aren't THAT many electrics, it is still nice to run juice now and then. There aren't many electrics in Canada, but I'm still keeping it for the CanSet.

Worse case scenario, you release regional sets. A straight VR set would be nice

[jabberwalkee_]

I thought we were going to distinguish between the two major state guages too......but I agree......I don't really see the need for electrifing track or building unelectrified track. So here's my vote for

narrow guage
regular guage
dual guage (for the pussies)

[BobDendry]

Dear Reader/Set Designer
In regards to me being in charge, I am, but I feel that this is a circle, not a chain. The problem with the standard/narrow/dual guage idea is that we have three guages on the drawing board not just the two. I, however feel that we can rectify the problem with the inclusion of good NFO coding. So I must reluctantly come to the decision that we have a single guage with the overrides for "realisitic" trains. I hope you are all happy with this desicion. I know some of you have fought passionately against this, but I feel that this is the only way to go. Maybe eventually we will have enough models to make State Specialty sets like NSW and Victoria.
Yours Sincerely,
WhiteHandIndustries
Set Director

[DaleStan]

[decision snipped]

Thank you. Now that this is decided, can we quit bickering, and maybe actually draw something? Or, in my case, oggle the beautiful graphics, and type halfway-intelligible hex-codes that make them work in-game?

[Patchman]

Besides, it's not really your choice regarding electrification or not. It's really a hard-coded patch setting. If it's on, the first track set is duplicated with electrification as the second track set, and if it's off you get no electrification. So unless you plan to not load the set for the wrong electrification setting, it's what you get...

No other choices exist, or can be implemented with any kind of reasonable effort.

[BobDendry]

I have bad news. ttdx_artist, has decided to leave the set. This means we have to start over. We now, more that ever, need graphics artists. Because of ttdx_artist's decision to leave the set, the 2IC poistion is now once again available. I will begin work on the new train list.

[DaleStan]

No. What he stated is that we (as set creators) have NO CHOICE what the second rail type is if electrifiedrailways is on--it's always the first type with electrification. Which, AIUI, is what we want for AUSet1[0]. The overrides to not draw the wagons if following an incorrect engine are still do-able, regardless of the setting of electrifiedrail. Personally, I don't much care which set succeeds, and I would be absolutely thrilled if both do; I just want to see new graphics.

And on that subject, (although I can't make this decision, for either set) I think the two AUSets should share graphics when both need drawings of the same vehicle.

Comments on AUSet1 vs. AUSet3: AUSet1 will have to make it quite clear which gauge(s) each engine and car can run on, to minimize the chance of users trying to build engines of one gauge and cars of another. We do, however have an advantage in that if two different-gauge cars have the same stats, we can just take up one VID, and draw the car differently depending on which engine it is behind.

[0]Again, unless someone proposes something better, I'm going to use the number of gauges to distinguish the two sets.

[BobDendry]

sadly, I doubt that the sets will share graphics. I feel there is a lot of tension going on between the two sets at the moment

[ttdx_artist]

I dont care if you use what graphics i have posted for your set, but they will also be in the AUSSET as my own graphics.

And this set is the Australian Set, mine is the AUSSET.