Wasteland [WIP] - 0.5.0 Released Sept 24, 2020!

[Andrew350]

the system for restoring the land is glitched. it works when set to year 2078(both in alpha 4 and alpha 6) but, not when set on year 2200 in alpha 4. i have not had the time to test it in alpha 6 yet.

Could you elaborate on how it's glitched?

Did you save and reload the game after the setting year? It doesn't happen automatically during gameplay, only on reload

[andreasaspenberg]

yeah sure. it does not do anything when set on year 2200. the terrain remains wasteland even after loading. when set to year 2078 however the land reverts to normal(toyland in my case) after loading. there is of course a lot of details here that is unknown, like what years it is that is compatible with. though it could also be that i have to save and load on a specific year. i have not tested that yet, though i might do so.

[Michpi]

andreasaspenberg

Please write what do you do exactly and what is wrong.
I've done a very quick test and everything works well for me:
Settings : Year of landscape change: 2201
New game: Toyland, year 2200.
Fast forward till 2202, save -> abandon game -> load. What I see is looked like Toyland, I think, although I didn't play in Toyland much.
Any additional GRF and GS?

[andreasaspenberg]

it have nothing to do with grfs, because it works when i set starting year at 2077 and year of landscape change at 2078. if however i set year of landscape change at 2200 it does not work. there is missing data here however. i do not know exactly why it fails. it works even with grfs however when i do not set the date at 2200. could be that the time gap is too long and that that is where the bug is.

[Andrew350]

There is no limitation on the dates, you can set it all the way to the year 4999999 and when you reload the game in the year 5000000 it will still switch. Obviously there is something else going on here, but based on what you're (not) saying it's impossible to know what. Maybe some screenshots of what you're seeing, including the NewGRF parameter list would help.

[+] Spoiler

EDIT: Lol, actually I just tested that and OpenTTD fails to generate a map. I guess the house availability dates aren't set quite high enough to start in the year 5 million But anything within reason should be perfectly fine, certainly 2200 is well within range

EDIT2: Hmm, actually I think I may have just found a bug in NML. It appears it's impossible to set the availability year above 65535

EDIT3: After more investigation, it's not a bug in NML, but a limit in the GRF spec itself due to being a word-sized property. I guess setting this property at all is inadvisable if you want houses to be available for all time. Not that that is likely to be a problem for anyone, but is interesting nonetheless

[andreasaspenberg]

i found the cause. it triggers only in single player. i just tested it. i saved it and then i tried to load in multiplayer and nothing happened. then i tried to load it in single player and then it worked. after that i tried to save it and load it in multiplayer and then it is back to wasteland. that means that the glitch is entirely multiplayer based. not that i know why.

[Andrew350]

Ah, multiplayer.

The landscape switch relies on checking the year_loaded variable, which is set to whatever year it is when loading a savegame. I'm guessing in multiplayer OpenTTD always sees this value to be the game's original start date since you can't really 'reload' a game in multiplayer, so it never gets triggered even after the date passes. Guess I should add a notice about this in the parameter description

[andreasaspenberg]

one way to get normal terrain in multiplayer is to set the year the landscape changes to the same as the starting year.

[Andrew350]

So anyway, not much exciting has happened since last week's release features-wise, but I've done a bit of housekeeping stuff today, including going through and making the errors a little more informative and thorough, preparing for an eventual release to the online content.

I finally managed to get through the FIRS list of incompatible NewGRFs more thoroughly and added all the rest of them, with a couple exceptions:

- Apollo Rocket Industry Set
- CZTR engines

These seemed to work fine with Wasteland with a quick test, so I've allowed them for now. I also added a few more industry sets which aren't (yet) disabled by FIRS but I found caused conflicts in Wasteland:

- Manpower Primary Industries
- OpenGFX+ Mars Industries
- Wannaroo Basic Industries
- Wannaroo Extra Industries
- Rectal FIRS
- YETI

I've also gone ahead and compiled a list of various house sets (mostly what I could find on the online content) and similarly disabled Wasteland if the "Houses" parameter is not turned off when loading them. The list is currently as follows:

Code: Select all

	(grf_future_status("\4D\47\0B\02") == 1) || //Early Houses
	(grf_future_status("\55\4A\00\00") == 1) || //Polish Buildings Set
	(grf_future_status("\4D\65\6F\9D") == 1) || //ECS Houses
	(grf_future_status("\52\45\34\00") == 1) || //JapanSet 3 Buildings
	(grf_future_status("\4D\63\50\69") == 1) || //Preindustrial era houses
	(grf_future_status("\6A\64\72\02") == 1) || //Wannaroo Tourist Set
	(grf_future_status("\4A\4B\01\06") == 1) || //Korean Style Buildings
	(grf_future_status("\4D\4C\53\01") == 1) || //Future Houses (Gadg8eer)
	(grf_future_status("\52\4A\45\01") == 1) || //NABS
	(grf_future_status("\45\4E\29\01") == 1) || //DPRK Houses v1
	(grf_future_status("\45\4E\29\02") == 1) || //DPRK Houses v2
	(grf_future_status("\47\4A\00\03") == 1) || //Early Mod - TaI UK Houses
	(grf_future_status("\47\4A\00\02") == 1) || //Early Mod - Swedish houses
	(grf_future_status("\47\4A\00\01") == 1) || //Early Mod - TTRS
	(grf_future_status("\56\43\00\01") == 1) || //TTRS 3
	(grf_future_status("\72\77\74\73") == 1) || //UK Town Set
	(grf_future_status("\44\44\24\11") == 1) || //TaI - UK Houses
	(grf_future_status("\41\53\30\31") == 1) || //Swedish Houses
	(grf_future_status("\4F\47\4D\05") == 1) || //OpenGFX+ Mars Habitats
	(grf_future_status("\54\54\03\01") == 1) || //Improved Town Layouts
	(grf_future_status("\4E\4C\48\53") == 1)) && //Dutch Terraced Houses

The lists are far from exhaustive, and more may be added later, but this should cover 99% of cases most users will encounter This hopefully shouldn't affect anyone (if you were playing with these sets without their respective parameters disabled, it was almost certainly broken!) but it should mean less people in the future will accidentally be able to do something to break the game once it gets released to BaNaNaS again.

I've also fixed a couple issues which have popped up recently, including the Doom Buggy having incorrect cargo capacity, and houses not having correct availability dates.

===========================

I have no ETA on when the next update will be ready, but I'd still like to include some end-game delivery locations for building materials and electricity, as well as including articulated trucks. If I get those features in, that's most of the main content I'm hoping to include for 0.7, so at that point it should hopefully be ready for beta and I'll add it to BaNaNaS for more people to try

[andreasaspenberg]

at least you are posting an update. i am not doing much these days other than play transport tycoon. i am not going anywhere. i am however curious about one thing: is there a place that stores older versions of wasteland? one issue i did find is that broad gauge and purr(from nuts unrealistic train set) does not mix. standard gauge and scavenged does work with purr however. maglev also works. it is only broad gauge that does not work with purr. broad gauge needs some loading graphics, as that is missing.

[Michpi]

I've also gone ahead and compiled a list of various house sets (mostly what I could find on the online content) and similarly disabled Wasteland if the "Houses" parameter is not turned off when loading them. The list is currently as follows:

In the next step, you will need to create a list of incompatible sets of railway types.

By the way, I usually use ABRS and I wonder isn't it included in Wasteland?

[Andrew350]

i am however curious about one thing: is there a place that stores older versions of wasteland?

The online content keeps all versions uploaded to it, however you have to have a savegame which uses an older version to be able to access them.

I also keep copies of the major released versions on my system (with backups elsewhere). I'm not keeping copies of the alpha versions though, since those really aren't meant to be permanent, so if you need one of those hopefully you kept a copy

one issue i did find is that broad gauge and purr(from nuts unrealistic train set) does not mix. standard gauge and scavenged does work with purr however. maglev also works. it is only broad gauge that does not work with purr. broad gauge needs some loading graphics, as that is missing.

I've never tried PURR with Wasteland, but this may be a GRF order issue. Perhaps putting Wasteland after PURR in the NewGRF list will solve this, otherwise I'm not sure what may be going wrong.

In the next step, you will need to create a list of incompatible sets of railway types.

You laugh now, but there very well may be other conflicts like that lurking in the shadows Although with 64 railtypes now possible, it is somewhat unlikely to be that...(famous last words)

By the way, I usually use ABRS and I wonder isn't it included in Wasteland?

The main reason is that Wasteland is written in NML, while ABRS is written in NFO (bridges currently don't have NML support). Theoretically I could convert Wasteland to NFO and then combine them, but that's just not something I care to do Also Wasteland could really use it's own special rusty, worn-out bridges, but I haven't even finished ABRS yet so that is unlikely to happen anytime soon Although there has recently been some discussion about a new extended bridge spec, so you never know...

[Michpi]

You laugh now, but there very well may be other conflicts like that lurking in the shadows Although with 64 railtypes now possible, it is somewhat unlikely to be that...(famous last words)

What I really mean is that, in my opinion, adding to the Wasteland almost any industry, houses, trains, RVs, etc. grf, city growth GS will at least destroy the balance and, at most, destroy the mechanic of the Wasteland.
So it might be better to write in Wasteland's description that Wasteland has to be a standalone grf. Although nearly no one reads the descriptions.

The main reason is that Wasteland is written in NML, while ABRS is written in NFO (bridges currently don't have NML support). Theoretically I could convert Wasteland to NFO and then combine them, but that's just not something I care to do Also Wasteland could really use it's own special rusty, worn-out bridges, but I haven't even finished ABRS yet so that is unlikely to happen anytime soon Although there has recently been some discussion about a new extended bridge spec, so you never know...

So is it worth using Wasteland grf with ABRS grf together?

[Taschi]

What I really mean is that, in my opinion, adding to the Wasteland almost any industry, houses, trains, RVs, etc. grf, city growth GS will at least destroy the balance and, at most, destroy the mechanic of the Wasteland.

It should be fairly common sense that dumping a bunch of high-tech real life trains into a wasteland will make that wasteland a lot less wasteland-y.

[andreasaspenberg]

i was not referring to alpha versions at all. i just want to test the various major releases. i downloaded version 0.2 long ago i believe.

[Andrew350]

What I really mean is that, in my opinion, adding to the Wasteland almost any industry, houses, trains, RVs, etc. grf, city growth GS will at least destroy the balance and, at most, destroy the mechanic of the Wasteland.
So it might be better to write in Wasteland's description that Wasteland has to be a standalone grf. Although nearly no one reads the descriptions.

Well, it doesn't have to be standalone, but yes it is likely many other NewGRFs will throw off the balance and/or break gameplay. There are plenty of things which work fine though, most vehicle sets are perfectly fine with Wasteland (just the costs might be a bit off), some GSs do work, etc., so it is really up to the user to find a combination that works for them These checks are mostly for people who just add things and have no idea what they're doing to let them know when they are definitely breaking the game. Adding industry and/or house sets is almost always guaranteed to do that, whereas other things can be a bit more forgiving, it just depends on the exact configuration. That isn't something I can easily explain in a short description though, at least not without making it sound like a big scary warning that adding anything else will definitely break the game, which isn't really true. And as you say, nobody reads those things anyway

So is it worth using Wasteland grf with ABRS grf together?

If you like, yes, there's no reason not to

i was not referring to alpha versions at all. i just want to test the various major releases. i downloaded version 0.2 long ago i believe.

Hmm, well I don't currently have the old releases posted anywhere so I'll have to see what I can do about that. Perhaps I can link them on the website, or maybe once I get around to moving Wasteland to GitHub there might be a way of posting the old releases there.

[andreasaspenberg]

i found a bug: i delivered wastelanders to an iron ore mine and the production dropped for a short time before it increased.

[Andrew350]

That is not a very useful report

I haven't polished my crystal ball lately, but my guess is that you delivered Wastelanders at the very end of the month, so when the next month rolled over the industry hadn't applied the boost yet, hence the production reported for the previous month had actually been lower. This might give the impression that production dropped from the boost, but in reality it was just a delay between when the delivery occurred and when the industry reports the production for the last month. Without more details, though, this is all I can guess.

[andreasaspenberg]

i provided all of the information i had. i usually do that. maybe you should add a separate vehicle for shipping wastelanders. bus 8`s problem is that it rarely gets full. another alternative is to increase the production of wastelanders to compensate for bigger buses.

[Taschi]

i provided all of the information i had. i usually do that. maybe you should add a separate vehicle for shipping wastelanders. bus 8`s problem is that it rarely gets full. another alternative is to increase the production of wastelanders to compensate for bigger buses.

You could have provided a savegame and pointed out where the problem happens, for one thing.