OpenTTD New Project Logo - questions

[Hydros]

You people are on fire! Great ideas left and right.
I'm loving it.

@planetmaker - that's excellent, your idea and layout solves my puzzle on how to "retrostyle" the main lettering for the beer coaster badge, perfectly!
We can try taking a look at how it turns out in contemporary style but I wouldn't have high expectations for that. Worth examining, but it will go really well with the retro badge, no doubts about that.

In a2 with the extra bars, the |OPENTTD| lettering suddenly looks like rail tracks under the train!

That's a really neat effect IMO - perhaps you could accentuate that even more somehow?

That is excellent, I had not seen that association myself. A great example why collaborative efforts always yield better results.
Another option to explore, added to my list. My next update will include exploration of this.


Side-topic, concerning retro badge:

I hope the inclusion of the "hipster edition" language was just a little sarcasm,and a simpler version with fewer words would be the actual version to consider.

Yes it was sarcasm aimed at trolls who confuse "I like it" with "It's better" and inversely "I don't like it" with "it's worse" at first. One is a statement of taste, the other of quality, coupled with a lack of understanding of what quality is, some tend to confuse one with the other and their statements betray ignorance. Personally I don't mind people making themselves look like fools, but it doesn't facilitate conversation here, in fact it stifles public discussion, BS like that can be conversation stoppers. And that's not good for the community, this endeavour or the project itself.
I made it as a demonstration that contemporary or retro are two different styles and any style can be executed well, or not. While I didn't spend even close to as much time as I do on a commissioned design, I consider it enough of an illustration that it can be done well. Also, liking retro because it's trendy reeks of hipsterism irony, but choosing retro because there's relevant context (railroads were an essential part of industrial revolution and that is a different era) is relevant.
So you made the badge outgrow the "joke" frame and is now a serious thing Keep in mind, I'm an adult far very away from student life a long time ago, my time is limited but rest assured, this is happening. Please understand it also makes sense to wait until we settle on the base identity symbol for good, since the retro badge will incorporate the final symbol too! That way the retro badge will be an official stylistic alternative and completely up-to-date. Also waiting saves me time from having to redo it again in the end. If you really couldn't wait, I could post a temporary version with just the sarcastic "hipster edition" removed but a better one will replace it in about a week afterward. Also, there are iterations of that to be done to clean it up too I reckon, I added some not-completely random text around (the platforms supported, finishing with "anything really" implying source will run on anything you can compile it on and "powered by free and open source". I didn't really spend time coming up with something since that wasn't the point but if we take a moment I'm sure we can collectively come up with pretty good and humorous stuff!
So consider this a call to action, since a proper badge is coming. I want one myself, it's a great use of it

The first question I have for you and everyone else concerning retro badge is, do you prefer the actual badge (solid background, 3 colour) or the transparent monocolour badges that lend themselves well to being overlayed over screenshots (which someone aptly called "faux designer t-shirt")?

back to main topic
The 4 oranges are supposed to represent a choice of colour. I forgot to add the comments on that. The orange I picked for further illustrations is the orange averaged from the current logo just to err on the side of conservative. I'm assuming we're sticking with the existing/current?
Truth be told, I see no need to change and there is no advantage (unlike green, the changing of which is advantageous as I've demonstrated and explained).

[Hydros]

Saturday afternoon update, part1




testing the rails idea next




feels like we're getting too far away, it's becoming something else


Now a refresher, these were the winners last round, half-negative style in the form of rounded badge
(regarding the square question, this doesn't work in a square badge, too much slack above and below looks too sloppy and distracting)


part 2 coming

[kamnet]

You should discard this one immediately. Between the fact that it appears to say "Open D" and the phallic shape, that's probably NOT the message you want to send.

[planetmaker]

Not quite... More an arrangement like the one attached (But keeping the suggested forms for D and maybe also O.

Excuse the bad quality... I'm only on my laptop without proper mouse.

[Hydros]

Lines and 26 degrees led the exploration in this direction:


and further down the same path



However, a reminder:

[Hydros]

Try to keep it constructive. Instead of "-1 this, -1 that, -1 that" share only what your +1 vote goes to, everything else is automatically assumed to be -1 anyway.

It'll be a lot more clean if we only note the +1s.

Nevermind, the phallic comment is worth it lol

[Eddi]

i'm still not convinced by the rotated Ts...

[kamnet]

You need a space between the two Ts in TTD otherwise it look like pi.

[V453000 :)]

I had to take a bit more time to reply because there is so many

The hinting rails are again a nice idea but I would probably keep it simple with w2 (over w1, I Like the green there, which can then be used in the wiki/download/translator/? logos).

The Open D is kind of beautiful, but the T's are super invisible there to me. The stuff-on-bricks is on the first sight interesting and game-fitting (yay BRIX XD) ... but the logo is even harder to read when diagonally skewed/rotated I think.

In both the bricky and guide lines at 26 degrees versions, I dislike the OPEN and TTD to be split in any way.

That is why I ultimately prefer w2 (so far). Simple, beautiful, works.

I would not be concerned about the "looks like pi" because all of the letters in the type are consistently looking, do you really read it as OPENPID? Kids, never do math again, has terrible influence! ... Regardless, I think this pi effect is more apparent when it is written like OPEN TTD, which I think is better to keep together.
The double T rotated looks perfectly fine to me, if the project name is written under the logo and explains it that way. A nice little puzzle for the eye, I love it. Is also probably why I'm not sold on the idea of the OpenD train as it does not have OPENTTD written there

All in all, amazing job with this man, regardless which is final.

[frosch]

I didn't comment on the designs of the last week yet, so I'll comment on everything.

About shape:
I generally dislike the inverted versions. A big coloured roundrect is too dominant, and IMHO does not look good at all.
The non-inverted logos OTOH fit nicely on black and white background, or even on same dimmed image (like current OTTD homepage). However, I quite like it with a rotated rhombus like in v1.
I like imagining what a logo looks like when zoomed far out, to decide what is the dominant/most visible part.

• Roundrect with logo -> Zoomed out: Just roundrect -> IMHO bad.
• Just logo -> Zoomed out: Something small text-ish -> okay.
• Rhombus with logo -> Zoomed out: Just rhombus -> okay.

So I guess I mostly dislike the roundrect.

About colors:
I quite like the versions with two colours, like c2. I think the green is good.
I cannot quite decide on an orange, I would have to put them next to the green. However, I like the colours used in c2 (though you didn't like them?). I don't like the grey-ish colors in f1 and f2. I am all for strong contrasts. In a train, the engine may have a very different colour composition than the wagons.

About text composition:
Most of the designs have the text "OPENTTD" horizontal below the logo. I want to ask why?

• In a desktop logo, there is already a label below the icon.
• On a website there is rather some text to the right, than below.
• On the wiki I would expect a "Wiki" or "Manual" text below, not "OPENTTD".

Overall, in my opinion the text "OPENTTD" should not be part of the logo in a horizontal direction. This IMHO always results in weird duplicated text. It kind of works in today's logo since it is rotated and in a smaller font size, so it vanishes compared to the surrounding text.
As a result, all the "rail themes" do not work for me either.

In the rhombus case, I wonder why you used a smaller font for "open". The asymmetry of the text looks really weird to me.
I would like to see a version derived from v1, but with a smaller font size, that is not stretched over the whole length of the rhombus.

x1 to x4 add a cuboid to the logo, which IMHO dominates too much, and I dislike them for the same reason as I dislike the roundrect in the inverted logos.

About the composited logos with "DOWNLOAD" etc:
I prefer the bottom row without the { } around the text. With the text in the middle it can be easily adjusted to a new context.
However, this does not work for the Wiki. For the Wiki the text must be below the logo, to make it overall more square. Though it may hurt the consistency of the design, I really think the Wiki logo needs to differ in the text composition from all the website places.

[FLHerne]

The hint lines make me suspect you misunderstood my idea about tracks - I meant in the same direction as the 'train' above them, with the vertical lines of P, N, T, T D looking like sleepers (ties) and the horizontal bits like rails.
Your lines suggest rails heading into the screen, in which case the train would be sliding along them sideways. Quite possibly I'm just misinterpreting them.

[frosch]

Some inspirational mockups for a BaNaNaS logo: White background, today's logo, black background:

bananas mockups

logomockups.png (28.68 KiB) Viewed 2002 times

(Ignore the anti-aliasing issues)

Some notes about the mockups:

• I think the goal should be that the logo works on both black and white background. Possibly with some black/white swapped (as with the text above).
• Making the text not use the whole buffer height, IMHO looks better.

[Hydros]

That is why I ultimately prefer w2 (so far). Simple, beautiful, works.
I would not be concerned about the "looks like pi" because all of the letters in the type are consistently looking, do you really read it as OPENPID? Kids, never do math again, has terrible influence! ... Regardless, I think this pi effect is more apparent when it is written like OPEN TTD, which I think is better to keep together.
The double T rotated looks perfectly fine to me, if the project name is written under the logo and explains it that way. A nice little puzzle for the eye, I love it. Is also probably why I'm not sold on the idea of the OpenD train as it does not have OPENTTD written there
All in all, amazing job with this man, regardless which is final.

V and Frosch, proper feedback. Good job. Others, take note please. Explain your +1s.

Just +1s and -1s are unimportant, it's the explanations and your personal reasons that add to the discussion.

noting:
+1 for keeping "openttd" as one word, I set out as such and agree.parallel to minefrom V for - keeping "openttd" as 1 word, my original intention and explanations are in this thread too

marginal +1 for the dual colour scheme, Frosch, explanation follows:
Why I don't like that original green is - it's the same brightness and the same saturation (full) as orange. We want some contrast between colours not just hue if we want them to be primary and secondary. If they're different brightness (orange being lighter, thus I darkened green a bit) or more saturated (I desaturated green a bit to make it more olive), it's a double contrast and thus it makes orange the primary colour because it suddenly stands out.


I tried not to explain too much even though I felt it was needed but I see you guys haven't had experience with corporate design, I feel you worry too much about this one-size-fits-everything-exactly idea. The idea is obsolete.

Here's how identity really works - whatever the logo, the whole bespoke design service of a corp's identity is not just coming up with a logo but custom tailoring to each specific application and quality assurance - making sure it works well. Meaning: when my clients wanted their company logo on the side of their containers, vans and cars in one instance and then engraved on the side of an 8-angle wooden pencil the next, I custom made two completely different logos which were derived from the same one of course and designed to retain the recognisability of the main identity. If the original identity had text, it would sometimes be omitted for the tiny engravings. If it had large lettering, that would normally be thinned, downsized or even removed when it goes on the side of a container. Some liked ideas of streaks patterned or headed with something recognisable.

How this applies here is, I'll make custom versions for white, black, program icon, splash screen, main title, web title.

Because, as correctly pointed out, a desktop icon has its own label, using the same variant of the logo with the text underneath would be redundant. The game icon will have it removed and maybe fit inside a square. Or that isometric block for game icon, how does that sound?

That's why I asked you to compile me a list of applications so I can get an idea of what we're dealing with ahead, frosch answered so we're good there.

TLDR
what we're looking for here is the main identity component which will get applied to different variants of the logo. (yes ideally even the retro badge)

noted the +1s for the logo form itself standing on its own (without the roundtangle)
the "zoomed out" as you call it frosch is a very good test. I called it "pencil test"

I would say the roundtangled version is only for large applications like a web title, or a fullscreen splash loading screen or what not. Something like that.

For application icon, we can do just square, or none, or explore the isoblock/brix variant more.

The "wiki" and "download" things were examples of headers for a web page, or tutorials etc, stuff like that, H1 in a tutorial for example. The idea is that once everything is settled, split it up and create mini icons so you can use it when writing tutorials as a prefix+suffix of H1 so the tutorial (or whatever it is really) has a bit more of a customized appearance that's unique to the project.

Ok so where are we now, a recap is in order, let's see.

[Hydros]

The hint lines make me suspect you misunderstood my idea about tracks - I meant in the same direction as the 'train' above them, with the vertical lines of P, N, T, T D looking like sleepers (ties) and the horizontal bits like rails.
Your lines suggest rails heading into the screen, in which case the train would be sliding along them sideways. Quite possibly I'm just misinterpreting them.

I see what you mean, sliding along the tracks sideways... why... it's the rally train! Erryday I'm driftin'

Jokes aside, I found exploring this more worthwhile, symmetry and depth creates more interest.

[Hydros]

Some inspirational mockups for a BaNaNaS logo: White background, today's logo, black background:

logomockups.png

(Ignore the anti-aliasing issues)

Some notes about the mockups:

• I think the goal should be that the logo works on both black and white background. Possibly with some black/white swapped (as with the text above).
• Making the text not use the whole buffer height, IMHO looks better.

Ok regarding the whole cargo ideas, we can squeeze it in the middle making OT&TD a push-pull like train, which I showed, or...

OTTD is the locomotive and it pulls the cargo in its own car for each application...

like this... example coming

[Dave]

I like the efforts being made but I still think I prefer the old version. I like the clarity of some of the new versions but if you then compared them with the original one I'd still pick that.

Meanwhile, as an aside...

Yes it was sarcasm aimed at trolls who confuse "I like it" with "It's better" and inversely "I don't like it" with "it's worse" at first. One is a statement of taste, the other of quality, coupled with a lack of understanding of what quality is, some tend to confuse one with the other and their statements betray ignorance. Personally I don't mind people making themselves look like fools, but it doesn't facilitate conversation here, in fact it stifles public discussion, BS like that can be conversation stoppers. And that's not good for the community, this endeavour or the project itself.

As a moderator, I find the tone of this somewhat inappropriate.

If I'd employed your business to come and do some design work for me and you spoke like that, I'd be more than miffed.

Less of the confrontational language, please.

[Hydros]

As a moderator, I find the tone of this somewhat inappropriate.

If I'd employed your business to come and do some design work for me and you spoke like that, I'd be more than miffed.

Less of the confrontational language, please.

I normally wouldn't care enough to reply, but you talk of somewhat inappropriate tone while as of now, you're the first and the only one in this whole thread who personally attacked someone.

Conflating one's internet forum demeanor in only one particular paragraph with their professionalism is indicative of really poor judgement and nothing short of trollish behaviour. That, coming from someone in the moderator group is something between comical and embarrassing and even more so considering you actually brought up the imaginary business context and the professional conduct implied therein, which leads me to believe you are not speaking from experience.

Thank you for the somewhat confusing yet slightly entertaining but always appreciated call to keep things constructive! For one of those alone, you have a +1 beer in my book if I run into you in a bar.

[Dave]

I normally wouldn't care enough to reply, but you talk of somewhat inappropriate tone while as of now, you're the first and the only one in this whole thread who personally attacked someone.

I haven't attacked anyone. I've just asked you to consider your tone.

[Chrill]

Hydros: You have taken it upon yourself to create a new logo. If people provide feedback that isn't up to your standards, you tell them to shape up and get to your level:

V and Frosch, proper feedback. Good job. Others, take note please. Explain your +1s.

That is very rude, especially considering this is a topic created by you and the replies are only for your help.

--

Now, back on topic. Out of your recent creations, I feel we have moved away from the aim a bit. I would like to see a return to w1 and w2, but there is a need to decrease size. After all, this would be the new logo and the icon for the .exe is rather small. See attached for a very quick mockup.

openttd_logo_mockups.PNG (14.58 KiB) Viewed 1861 times

This is the space we are working with. I struggle to see how some of these suggestions would fit into that little box. Also worth noting how text in the logo makes the text appear twice - file name and in the image itself.

[Hydros]

I haven't attacked anyone. I've just asked you to consider your tone.

Ah, a misunderstanding then, very good. You'll forgive the tone illustration in my reply to you then.

especially considering this is a topic created by you and the replies are only for your help.

Which is exactly the reason why I praised good feedback, to inspire anyone with that kind of mindset to try to contribute because the moment you do, you become a part of the process, it's really for you, everyone. It's certainly not for me. You know even if all you can come up with is a really bad idea that gets tossed out almost immediately that's still an avenue explored and you inevitably became part of the process and from that moment on, had a part in building it.

Ok now the space you're referring to is what exactly, you're thinking of the 48px desktop icon?
You're correct in pointing this out, the filename makes it appear redundant, something to be addressed.

We've already talked about it, I'm just not going to spend time on these specific applications/variations before the central image is finalized. Desktop icons needs to be pixel perfect at all sizes and pushing all those pixels can be time consuming. If we make just one alteration in the logo, then everything needs to be pixel pushed again. You see what I mean right?

Also, the executable icon in particular doesn't just have to be only the logo with type removed. It can be, say an isometric freight container with the logo as a decal on its side. That would retain a hint of the original diamond shape of old while integrating the new logo. Only for the game icon perhaps. That's another avenue of how you can contribute, if you like the container idea, why? Is it worth exploring? You may have your own ideas how the game icon should be different?