American Road Replacement Set

Railwaymodeler · PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:50 pm

Just from curiousity, I tried a few GRF combinations with this road set. I am not a big fan of OpenGFX, as it does not have the same feel as original graphics.

For all the talk of TBRS (Which was a great bridge set by the way), I also tried an old bridge set from Purno, Prof. Frink (Haven't seen him in ages, so you know this is an old GRF), and one other fellow, Szappy, I think. This other bridge GRF also does not play nicely with ARRS. It plays nicer than TBRS does, and the graphics glitches are not as noticable, so it will be good enough for me.

The old bridge GRF, does anyone know the copyright type of it? Perhaps, if licensing allows, one could use graphics from it?

Ogre · PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:47 pm

Andrew350 wrote:

... you seem to be quite capable of it, and perhaps others will also like those changes?

Thanks for both your compliment and your considerations. This screenshot was simply modified by replacing the bright tire related lines. There was no "capability" needed. The lines are still present, but they share their color with other pixels from your design, making them less noticable. Note that the lines on crossroads are still somewhat present (check the enlarged version)?

I neither have an idea how much work it will be to modify the tiles, nor do I have any coding abilities (at least, in NewGRF / NML), so all what I coud do is to decompile your GRF, play around with the pixels and recompile it. Finally, as this is nothing more than a simple color swap, I would rather feel hijacking your work when modifying and eventually building a NewGRF from it.

Andrew350 · PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:04 pm

Railwaymodeler wrote:

The old bridge GRF, does anyone know the copyright type of it? Perhaps, if licensing allows, one could use graphics from it?

Just for clarification, this is the one you're talking about right? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=7583 If so, it doesn't look like there's any license given, so I guess one would have to ask.

Also, I've been thinking about TBRS, but one of the things I'm stuck on is whether to do the "main" version (the one on Bananas), or the most recent one which was never released properly (found here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38492&start=500#p1045103). I'm leaning more towards the newer version since it only changes a few bridges, but I'd have to get a hold of thegergo first and see if he'd be able to put it up on Bananas before I made an American Roads version of it. With only 88 downloads though, the newer version doesn't seem to be very popular, or at least very well-known, so if there's a strong preference over one or the other I'd like to know.

Ogre wrote:

I neither have an idea how much work it will be to modify the tiles, nor do I have any coding abilities (at least, in NewGRF / NML), so all what I coud do is to decompile your GRF, play around with the pixels and recompile it. Finally, as this is nothing more than a simple color swap, I would rather feel hijacking your work when modifying and eventually building a NewGRF from it.

To just do a simple color swap like you've done would only take a few minutes or so for the whole set, plus maybe a few touch ups here and there, no coding should be necessary. As long as you have the know-how to re-compile the grf, it might be worth doing even if just for personal use.

supermop · PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:04 pm

Maybe you should dive into an NFO nightmare and take on an American Bridge Replacement Set!

kamnet · PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:27 am

Andrew350 wrote:

Railwaymodeler wrote:

The old bridge GRF, does anyone know the copyright type of it? Perhaps, if licensing allows, one could use graphics from it?

Just for clarification, this is the one you're talking about right? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=7583 If so, it doesn't look like there's any license given, so I guess one would have to ask.

No license given, so you can't just automatically decompile it. Szappy hasn't been around for a few years, but he has a Gmail account, so you could try to contact him. In that thread Szappy says that he wouldn't have a problem with anybody using his code to add supports for new roads, as long as they also code in a parameter to use those roads. If they're just going to swap sprites, he wouldn't allow his code to be used. Purno points out much later in the thread that there are some errors in the code, and then gives his permission to Thgrego to use his sprites in TBRS.

Andrew350 wrote:

Also, I've been thinking about TBRS, but one of the things I'm stuck on is whether to do the "main" version (the one on Bananas), or the most recent one which was never released properly (found here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38492&start=500#p1045103).

I'd go with using the newest version.

Railwaymodeler · PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:14 am

If I understand what Szappy said correctly, we can add a new road surface to the bridge GRF, but have to add a parameter to switch between the new road surface and the original?

Does anyone think this would be easier than redoing the TBRS set?

kamnet · PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:18 am

Railwaymodeler wrote:

If I understand what Szappy said correctly, we can add a new road surface to the bridge GRF, but have to add a parameter to switch between the new road surface and the original? Does anyone think this would be easier than redoing the TBRS set?

Not unless you're willing to also support Szappy's code and fix the existing bugs in the set. Considering he's not around here anymore, I doubt he's going to fix them after all these years. It would be better, IMO, to work with TBRS which is still supported and whose developer can help with resolving any bugs. You could even use new bridge sprites without changing the code much.

Railwaymodeler · PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:34 am

So, does that mean, I can just reuse Szappy's code with new bridge road surfaces?

I haven't seen any real bugs in the bridge set, and do like that some rail bridges have no real "deck", but are open under the rails, like some bridges I have seen.

Kind of curious if I could do that, as I've long wanted to create something for the O/TTD/P games, but never found anything that is doable, and to my taste.

Got a few days to idle, as I was supposed to be taking a road trip with a friend today to Sunday, staying home now, so have the rest of the week "off" pretty much.

kamnet · PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:54 am

Can't hurt to e-mail him and see what he says.

MinchinWeb · **Joined:** Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:41 pm **Posts:** 226

Andrew350, I think the road set looks great (the tire tracks in the intersection are a neat idea). Thanks for putting this together and sharing!

BauerME · PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:19 pm

Andrew350 wrote:

Yes, I know about NARoads, but as far as I can tell it's not made for OpenGFX, and there are a few quirks I've seen in screenshots that bug me.

Andrew, I think your set looks great. However, I was wondering what you meant by NARoads not being made for OpenGFX (specifically how that made a difference in-game) as well as details on some of the quirks you saw in screenshots.

I ask specifically because I love the NARoads set and I am working on revamping the sprites for that set... so information like this would be good to have now and could possibly be fixed through the work I am doing.

Andrew350 · PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:31 am

First of all, let me say that many of the things that bug me are more personal preferences than anything and may not reflect the thoughts of others. But I'll try to list some things anyway.

In regards to OpenGFX compatibility, the main problem is with bridges and level crossings (mostly the former), since these are based off of TTD graphics which don't match the OpenGFX ones. Obviously these things can be fixed by using the right bridge grf and different rail sets, but for those who don't, they will look broken. Of course, the ground tile mismatch is also a (minor) issue.

Now for a few of those quirks, in order of importance to me:

- Curves on the "country" roads are drawn with just a single line instead of being double yellow like they should be, whereas the "city" roads do it correctly.

- There's a similar inconsistency with the slopes; only the front facing ones include a passing stripe along with the solid one, while the back ones show just a single line.

- The straight country road pieces have a slightly irregular spacing in the stripes. The front facing slopes also have an odd passing stripe that doesn't match the rest of the stripes (they're too small).

- The "city" curves don't show a sidewalk like the straight pieces do.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Those last two are very minor, and I'm sure 99.9% of people wouldn't even notice. Overall NARoads is a great looking set, but if those issues I pointed out above were to be fixed it would be even better.

And just so I know, is the work you're doing a collaboration with OzTrans and company to improve the existing set, or will this be something different? Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing what happens

BauerME · PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:11 pm

Andrew350 wrote:

And just so I know, is the work you're doing a collaboration with OzTrans and company to improve the existing set, or will this be something different? Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing what happens

Yes, I am working with OzTrans. I had some suggestions for NARoads as well, and Oz seemed pretty open to considering them, but he needed somebody to do the art work... so I offered my services. Life is crazy on my end, so my free time is limited and it is slow going... but any progress is better than no progress.

OzTrans · **Joined:** Fri Mar 04, 2005 1:07 am **Posts:** 1501

Andrew350 wrote:

Now for a few of those quirks, in order of importance to me: ...

Thank you very much for the list of 'quirks'. We shall take them on board and fix them as necessary.

Quote:

... only the front facing ones include a passing stripe along with the solid one, while the back ones show just a single line.

That is intentional. The rear slopes road width is so narrow, that two lines is one too many.

Should you have noticed any other issues, please let us know, so that we can fix them.

Andrew350 · PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:55 pm

OzTrans wrote:

Andrew350 wrote:

... only the front facing ones include a passing stripe along with the solid one, while the back ones show just a single line.

That is intentional. The rear slopes road width is so narrow, that two lines is one too many.

Really? I managed to do it just fine. The solid line just needs to be shifted over slightly and it'll give just enough room to squeeze in the dash, and road vehicles still won't overlap the lines, at least not noticeably anyway. It should be a win-win situation to fix it, but, I guess it's your call.

Andrew350 · PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:32 am

Just a minor update, I fixed a small error where the left hand drive bridge sprites weren't fully updated to use the double yellow stripe. If you don't use left hand drive, this doesn't affect you. The new version can be found in the first post or on BaNaNaS.

Also in related news, I've started to convert the Total Bridge Renewal Set to these roads. I'm about 60% done already, so those of you wanting to use TBRS without the ugly road mismatch shouldn't have to wait too much longer

zooks · **Joined:** Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:36 am **Posts:** 261

Finally we will be able to get a good looking road set with bridge support from bananas! Great work!

Nite Owl · PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:46 am

It looks like I may have to change my default road set once the TBRS conversion is done. Excellent work.

planetmaker · PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:22 am

Very nice work, Andrew. I shall give it a spin in at least one of my next games :-)

Andrew350 · PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:15 am

Thanks everyone!

Here it is as promised, the Total Bridge Renewal Set version 1.2 for use with ARRS:

Attachment:

finishedbridges.png [ 113.18 KiB | Viewed 2557 times ]

I've attached the grf file here, but it's also available via the online content. Enjoy

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