What baffles me about rail enthusiasts...

[Geo Ghost]

I've come across this quite a few times now, and it's mainly relating to steam.

Now, I love steam. Everyone knows that since I did a documentary on it and talked to a bunch of people who also loved steam plus worked on them.
The people who watch that video, apparently also love steam. People I talk to at heritage railways love steam, and some I occasionally chat to at stations do so as well.
Almost all are rail enthusiasts and most have some kind of passion for the railways and such - steam or modern.

So why is it that simple logic or common sense seems to elude some people (some, not all. Just some).
I'm at heart an enthusiast and I'm happy with my knowledge. Whilst I don't claim to know everything or masses, I'm still happy with what I do currently know and I love expanding that when I can. Either through reading things, talking to people, or getting into debates from time to time.
What gets to me is some who act like they know everything and act so damn pretentious sometimes. I've met a couple like that who get very arsy with me if I don't happen to know the class of every loco in the UK or if I mix up one number with another by mistake. That really gets on my nerves lately.

Some people, who claim to have all this knowledge, keep saying things like "Steam never should have left the railways!" "We never should have had diesel and electric!" "I hope they bring back steam one day to replace everything!".
I might not know everything and I'm happy to openly admit that I don't, but I'm pretty confident in thinking that such comments/ideas are utterly ridiculous.
Nostalgia is one thing, it is a shame that steam vanished and changed many peoples lives but to suggest we're worse off today without it?
Guys, am I the only one who gets bugged by that... have others noticed it as well? I am right in thinking these people are wrong and steam had to go eventually aren't I? Or am I wrong and we have been better with steam forever which is against what I think now?

Sorry for a bit of a part philosophical, part rant moment. Just a few things I've been reading, and a youtube comment, have really got to me a bit with such things.

Should steam have ever vanished? Or are some of these claiming 'know-it-alls' talking rubbish to me

[PikkaBird]

Steam engines are inefficient, dirty, and dangerous. They smogged up cities and started fires in the countryside, took up huge areas of land with all the infrastructure they required, and they slowly killed the people who worked with them.

People who romanticise the age of steam because they've seen Tornado or they vaguely remember steam trains from when they were a child are silly. Steam engines are like tall ships; they're very pretty and a nice thing to play with as a hobby, but the reality of their heyday was actually pretty horrible.

[JamieLei]

It's the same with cranks and "real trains". Even though MUs are far more efficient and flexible, they still claim that loco hauled stuff is the way forward, forever banging on about Switzerland and Chiltern Railways.

[Chrill]

It's the same with cranks and "real trains". Even though MUs are far more efficient and flexible, they still claim that loco hauled stuff is the way forward, forever banging on about Switzerland and Chiltern Railways.

Sweden is slowly replacing their loco hauled passenger trains with EMUs, such as the SJ 3000 / X55 (modified Regina trains) and that fancy double-decker, X40, you got to go on when you visited. Several rail enthusiasts here are voicing the same concerns (that's second-hand information to be honest). It seems many train enthusiasts here have a hard-on for electric locomotives hauling everything, and we have used the Rc series since God knows when. It's a very adaptable train though, it can be configured as a 160 km/h intercity train or haul heavy freight and everything inbetween.

[Klaasgras]

Loco-hauled trains are still the ´real´ trains for me. However, I do realise that MU´s are much cheaper to operate and are more flexible. The truth is that modern railways simply can´t survive without MU´s.

The Dutch Railways for example, still operaty classic Loco-hauled trains, but these will not be replaced by other engines but with MU´s, simply because it is not economical to operate them, especially on the short routes en services in The Netherlands.

[Kevo00]

Steam should have gone for all the reasons cited above, although perhaps not as quickly as it did - the asset lives of the locomotives built in the 1950s was not worked out.

The enthusiasts I find most annoying are those that make up false knowledge or make obviously false claims. Quite why rail enthusiasts feel the need to 'outknowledge' others I do not know.

[Geo Ghost]

Quite why rail enthusiasts feel the need to 'outknowledge' others I do not know.

That, I would love to know as well. Although, if there is someone talking a load of rubbish about anything, it is very satisfying to put them in their place a bit.
Generally though, I keep coming across people like that and it really annoys me. I love meeting enthusiasts who used to, or currently work in the rail industry as they have some interesting stories to tell and I trust them more for information.

Wow, I must have been in quite a dull mood when I started this the other day.

[teccuk]

Steam has to carry its own fuel, like diesel but then you need to burn it to build water to make steam to make pistons move. Its just not efficient.

The loco thing though... i'm dunno, but given the rolling stock problems and as MU's cost £1m + each, i don't get how some sort of standard loco and carriages isn't cheaper as well as being more flexible?

I like you youtube vid, the link to your model railway is broken btw.

[Geo Ghost]

I like you youtube vid, the link to your model railway is broken btw.

Again? Cheers for that. I didn't even know.
Seems to keep getting problems. Strangest one being that the first post is actually half-way through the topic and rolls backwards to the start, then carries on after the mis-placed first post. Yup, it has a mind of it's own!


Also, may I enquire why this has ended up in the GTD area?

[Chris]

What gets to me is some who act like they know everything and act so damn pretentious sometimes.

I find this is one of the most irritating characteristics that somebody can have.

[Illegal_Alien]

It's the same with cranks and "real trains". Even though MUs are far more efficient and flexible, they still claim that loco hauled stuff is the way forward, forever banging on about Switzerland and Chiltern Railways.

Sweden is slowly replacing their loco hauled passenger trains with EMUs, such as the SJ 3000 / X55 (modified Regina trains) and that fancy double-decker, X40, you got to go on when you visited. Several rail enthusiasts here are voicing the same concerns (that's second-hand information to be honest). It seems many train enthusiasts here have a hard-on for electric locomotives hauling everything, and we have used the Rc series since God knows when. It's a very adaptable train though, it can be configured as a 160 km/h intercity train or haul heavy freight and everything inbetween.

So if i say the date is 1967 am i God now?

Also people who talk like they know stuff but dont, i would love to hit them in the face.

[Voyager One]

People who romanticise the age of steam because they've seen Tornado or they vaguely remember steam trains from when they were a child are silly.

I like horse-drawn carriages. Hey, a brilliant idea - let's scrap all cars and trucks and stuff like that and start using horses again!!!

[Ploes]

People who romanticise the age of steam because they've seen Tornado or they vaguely remember steam trains from when they were a child are silly.

I like horse-drawn carriages. Hey, a brilliant idea - let's scrap all cars and trucks and stuff like that and start using horses again!!!

...or move to Sark

[Ovenbaked]

People who romanticise the age of steam because they've seen Tornado or they vaguely remember steam trains from when they were a child are silly.

I like horse-drawn carriages. Hey, a brilliant idea - let's scrap all cars and trucks and stuff like that and start using horses again!!!

Horses are actually better than cars in many aspects.
1: They will eat available grass, where as cars need fuel to be transported across the globe to them.
2: carbon neutral, electric cars are as well BUT require electricity(power plants are mainly coal and oil)
3: Self replicating/self contained factory, cars have to be built and require several industries to build them.

However they are weak, slow and take years to grow.


I love steam and feel it's a great piece of our History and Heritage. I feel diesel is a bit of a not-so-great part, being no cleaner or more efficient than steam could be.
Steam should of stayed till the last of the lines had been electrified. I'm not saying it should of survived longer, I'm saying that ALL mainlines should of been finished half a century ago!

[Chris]

I feel diesel is a bit of a not-so-great part, being no cleaner or more efficient than steam could be.
Steam should of stayed till the last of the lines had been electrified. I'm not saying it should of survived longer, I'm saying that ALL mainlines should of been finished half a century ago!

Trololololololololololololol.

Edit: Oh and it is should HAVE, not of.

[Doorslammer]

Halfbaked would have been more appropriate.

[PikkaBird]

Horses are actually better than cars in many aspects.
1: They will eat available grass, where as cars need fuel to be transported across the globe to them.
2: carbon neutral, electric cars are as well BUT require electricity(power plants are mainly coal and oil)
3: Self replicating/self contained factory, cars have to be built and require several industries to build them.

However they are weak, slow and take years to grow.

1, there is no available grass in cities. Feed stock must be produced and transported.
2, not even close to carbon neutral. Even today in our unhorsey world, livestock produces more greenhouse gas than transport does.

But of course the biggest problem with horse transport, one that olde worlde enthusiasts and period dramas invariably ignore, is the poo. Poo everywhere. By the turn of the 20th century, an army of roadsweepers working 24/7 could not prevent the streets of London and New York being perpetually clogged with horse poo. The motor car was a welcome solution to an increasingly insurmountable problem.

[Voyager One]

But of course the biggest problem with horse transport, one that olde worlde enthusiasts and period dramas invariably ignore, is the poo. Poo everywhere. By the turn of the 20th century, an army of roadsweepers working 24/7 could not prevent the streets of London and New York being perpetually clogged with horse poo.

At least that would solve the unemployment problem.

Come on people, I was joking about horses and carriages!

[audigex]

On the other hand it would confuse the hell out of the mounted police when 60,000 people turn up to Old Trafford on horseback.

[JamieLei]

But of course the biggest problem with horse transport, one that olde worlde enthusiasts and period dramas invariably ignore, is the poo. Poo everywhere. By the turn of the 20th century, an army of roadsweepers working 24/7 could not prevent the streets of London and New York being perpetually clogged with horse poo. The motor car was a welcome solution to an increasingly insurmountable problem.

That's actually a very valid point. The stench in late 19th century New York City was unbearable and lead to disease.