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 Post subject: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:36 pm 
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The comic thread is not completely forgotten. I started recently to toy around with them, mainly to teach myself some NFO where I can start from scratch without digging into depths wich are still beyond me. For a start I'll focus on houses only. Mind though, that I don't create a 32bpp newgrf.

As a small teaser:
Attachment:
File comment: Comic houses
comic_style_teaser3.png [185.22 KiB]
Downloaded 2 times


The repository can be found at the DevZone. I haven't decided yet, maybe there'll be nightlies, too when I somewhat figured out the basics (e.g. right now all houses accept coal :-D ).
So far I try to keep things universal, so that this newgrf works for both, TTDP and OTTD. I'll decide about specifics when I run into limits.


Attachments:
File comment: A small banner for this set
banner.png
banner.png [ 10.81 KiB | Viewed 10220 times ]

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Last edited by planetmaker on Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Looks good indeed. I'd recon that this will be a fun set to play with when it gets finished.

Is it meant to be a complete replacement set or only partial?

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:29 pm 
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One will have to see wether we can get hold of more of those comic sprites, maybe also others like landscape and so on. Industry might be interesting, too. But all those other sprites will need some kind of re-scaling which was already done for those house sprites which I use as of now.

For now though, this is going to be a houses newgrf. Other comic extensions would go into their own newgrfs similar to how the japanese newgrfs are structured.

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:14 pm 
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Yay :bow:

I really look forward to playing with this set!

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:01 pm 
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As a taster, here's what I have come up with so far. It's only a dozen houses, nothing fancy and the house names might still be wrong. Population is adjusted rather to the higher end is my impression.

Feedback is very much appreciated, especially on the stats (population, cargo acceptance) of the houses as well as their naming.


Attachments:
File comment: r17 of the comic houses
comichouses-nightly-r17.zip [61.08 KiB]
Downloaded 276 times

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:05 pm 
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Great that you're picking up these sprites, planetmaker :)

Quote:
Mind though, that I don't create a 32bpp newgrf.

Extending this to 32bpp is a rather easy task, it's just a matter of naming the individual sprites after the corresponding sprite numbers, putting them all in a folder named the same as your .grf, and setting their x- and y-offset with pngcodec. No additional coding (as in complicated stuff like nfo) required.

Only problem is when you're swapping sprites around in your .grf, a previously made 32bpp extension to your .grf will be defunct. So it should only be made when your .grf is final, or when you state that the sprite numbers won't change anymore.


I'll give your taster a try, then. Thanks for your work :)

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:16 pm 
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Hello,

this will be a funny set! Never heard about it before... :bow:
I belive that it has the right to be a real replacement ;) Like OpenGFX :D
But if its just an House Set, its cool, too! I'm waiting for it!!!
Good Luck, in this time, i'm learning making NewGRF's and I know how hard it is!

Greets,
Tim


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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:44 pm 
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planetmaker wrote:
One will have to see wether we can get hold of more of those comic sprites, maybe also others like landscape and so on. Industry might be interesting, too. But all those other sprites will need some kind of re-scaling which was already done for those house sprites which I use as of now.

That shouldn't be too hard if you've got photoshop or anything like that around, you could batch resize sprites then if you'd like. All the graphics would be available from the simutrans graphics pack, but I think that you'd need to request permission from that team.

planetmaker wrote:
For now though, this is going to be a houses newgrf. Other comic extensions would go into their own newgrfs similar to how the japanese newgrfs are structured.

The question was about whether it is going to be a simple replacement of graphics or if it will be a newhouses set including logic etc. I think it would be quite nice to have this as a complete replacement set. The graphics are quite good and might give a different dimension to O)TTD(P, especially if you take into consideration that the scale is totally off and these graphics fit quite well with something as "unrealistic" as TTD's scale.

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:11 pm 
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This looks like a really cool set! I've added it to the NewGRF Sets page on the wiki.


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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Roujin wrote:
Extending this to 32bpp is a rather easy task, it's just a matter of naming the individual sprites after the corresponding sprite numbers, putting them all in a folder named the same as your .grf, and setting their x- and y-offset with pngcodec. No additional coding (as in complicated stuff like nfo) required.

Only problem is when you're swapping sprites around in your .grf, a previously made 32bpp extension to your .grf will be defunct. So it should only be made when your .grf is final, or when you state that the sprite numbers won't change anymore

When you say 'sprite', do you mean house ID or do you really mean sprite as in the lines numbered by nforenum? The latter are beyond my control and will change from revision to revision. The houseIDs should be fairly stable (though I don't want to guarantee it right now). But if I know that it matters, they can be kept constant and I'll just sequentially increase the IDs when adding new houses.

If you like, you can join in and include the 32bpp version and the necessary generation scripts in the very same repository. That way it could possibly made such that the tar and the grf are always in sync and jointly released.

That said, the IDs and the associated pcx file names are in a simple-to-parse csv table from which I generate by means of scripts and nfo templates the entire code (here shortend for clearity):
Code:
// ID, Zone, Pop, Mail, Start, End, StringID, Name, templatetype, pcxfile
01, ZONE_HIGHRISE, 150,   16 ,1970, 9999, Highrise1, Commercial Tower, building.template, highrise_01

XeryusTC wrote:
planetmaker wrote:
But all those other sprites will need some kind of re-scaling

That shouldn't be too hard if you've got photoshop or anything like that around, you could batch resize sprites then if you'd like.

I had a very amiable conversation with the comic set's artist, Alex Brose; he seemed actually quite keen on seeing those sprites also in OpenTTD :-) and he gave me permission to use the graphics of the comic set which I need. In order to modify graphics gimp is available to me. It can *somehow* be scripted, too. But I have as of now no idea how.

XeryusTC wrote:
planetmaker wrote:
For now though, this is going to be a houses newgrf. Other comic extensions would go into their own newgrfs similar to how the japanese newgrfs are structured.

The question was about whether it is going to be a simple replacement of graphics or if it will be a newhouses set including logic etc. I think it would be quite nice to have this as a complete replacement set. The graphics are quite good and might give a different dimension to O)TTD(P, especially if you take into consideration that the scale is totally off and these graphics fit quite well with something as "unrealistic" as TTD's scale.

Indeed. It will become a "full" newgrf, finally it will not be a simple replacement. Technically it is not even now as I define them as totally new houses, disabling the default ones, but the more advanced features will need time to learn and implement, but will creep in as my nfo understanding increases and my time allows.

Churches, stadions etc shouldn't be hard as they're default "types". Making some houses street-side aware might make sense as some of them feature road access or similar. Adjusting probabilities and epochs for houses is easily can can already be done... but needs a good overview and detailed assessment of those houses. Also, adding support for some industry sets (ecs, firs), should be feasable, adding houses which accept petrol tourists,... and can be done by setting properties accordingly.

petert wrote:
This looks like a really cool set! I've added it to the NewGRF Sets page on the wiki.

Thanks :-)

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:49 pm 
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planetmaker wrote:
When you say 'sprite', do you mean house ID or do you really mean sprite as in the lines numbered by nforenum? The latter are beyond my control and will change from revision to revision. The houseIDs should be fairly stable (though I don't want to guarantee it right now). But if I know that it matters, they can be kept constant and I'll just sequentially increase the IDs when adding new houses.


Lines numbered by nforenum :)

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:50 am 
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planetmaker wrote:
If you like, you can join in and include the 32bpp version and the necessary generation scripts in the very same repository. That way it could possibly made such that the tar and the grf are always in sync and jointly released.


I'll have to refuse, since I should be working on my thesis, and have already too many things distracting me without another project ;)

As DJ Nekkid confirmed, the actual sprite number (which of course is subject to a lot of changes during development of the set) is needed.
However, since you guys are already automating a lot of stuff, I guess this can somehow be automated as well.

You could have the png files named like the pcx file, i.e. (following the example you gave) highrise_01_1.png through highrise_01_n.png, where n is the number of sprites you have in that template.
Your scripts could then be somehow extended to renaming, or rather copying these files (after the nforenum step) to match the line number of the line the corresponding 8bpp sprite was written in. If the offset setting using pngcodec can also be streamlined into this process, plus maybe .tarring the whole thing, you'll have a fully functional 32bpp extension automatically built, which automatically adapts to any shuffling of sprites you do.

Anyway, that's just me throwing in random ideas. I don't even know how your scripts exactly work, nor do I have time (as I stated above) to get into this. But maybe someone else is inspired by the idea :)

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:36 pm 
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Roujin wrote:
planetmaker wrote:
If you like, you can join in

I'll have to refuse, since I should be working on my thesis, and have already too many things distracting me without another project ;)


Ah, a pity :-(
But occasional contributions are also welcome :-)

Roujin wrote:
You could have the png files named like the pcx file, i.e. (following the example you gave) highrise_01_1.png through highrise_01_n.png, where n is the number of sprites you have in that template.
Your scripts could then be somehow extended to renaming, or rather copying these files (after the nforenum step) to match the line number of the line the corresponding 8bpp sprite was written in. If the offset setting using pngcodec can also be streamlined into this process, plus maybe .tarring the whole thing, you'll have a fully functional 32bpp extension automatically built, which automatically adapts to any shuffling of sprites you do.

Something along these lines was my idea and it sounds feasable. Adding this to the makefile would probably not pose too much of a problem. Provided that the PNG files follow a similar template pattern (e.g. all files the same wrt placement within the file) like the PCX files, the offsets could be chosen in a fixed way for the few different principle types of buildings (1x1, 2x1, 1x2 and 2x2).

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:26 pm 
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Another intermediate result with a few more houses, a little bit better naming of all of them and a bit refined zoning (and quite some changes under the hood which are not really noticable).

Feedback as usual welcome.


Attachments:
File comment: r44 of the comic houses
comichouses-nightly-r44.zip [117.96 KiB]
Downloaded 169 times

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:34 pm 
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Great job! Even though you didn't draw them, I'm glad they've been coded together. Like we discussed in IRC, a road set would go nicely with this. It would blend with the houses very well.


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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:14 pm 
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I'm currently pondering about how to display the construction stages within this set.

What I do have are the sprites for the built-up houses. OpenTTD (and TTDPatch?) offer three construction stages plus the built-up stage, so something has to be done about the three building stages.

There's a variety of options. Given that this is a comic set, one can assume that a construction stage could be seen as various stages of having the sprite drawn.
Attachment:
File comment: more and more coloured with a black and white contour overlay
stages_a.png
stages_a.png [ 15.47 KiB | Viewed 10283 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: more and more coloured, but just the outline emphasized by a black rim
stages_b.png
stages_b.png [ 14.93 KiB | Viewed 10283 times ]

Attachment:
File comment: no colour in the building stages, but increasing black & white / grayscale detail
stages_c.png
stages_c.png [ 9.92 KiB | Viewed 10283 times ]


Opionions? Critizism? Further Proposals?

Which of those is preferrable or are there other good ideas (which I can also implement / carry out save of a complete re-draw of all those building-stage sprites - that option would take me with my pixel-art skills AGEs and the set won't see light then anytime soon. If there are volunteers, though, that's something different).

A 4th option would possibly be like the last one, but replacing the 2nd building stage by a somewhat faded out gray-scale version

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:22 pm 
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I love the 3rd one. The black and white buildings really "go" with the comic set in general.


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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:28 pm 
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I prefer the first, actually, but the third comes a close second place.
Hope that's not too confusing.


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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:29 pm 
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Might I suggest something a but more like drawing? Like first the outlines, then a part colored in, then the next part and then the entire building ofcourse. You could just go with having half of it colored in or only specific colors/sides done first.

Otherwise I'd prefer the first one.

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 Post subject: Re: [UNIV] Comic Set
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:39 pm 
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Question: I can't really tell, but does the final building stage for all three of them look the same?


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