TownCars AI -- Joke gone bad

[Leanden]

I'm offended Zuu, how did you come up with this AI? hmm?

[Moderator] Split of from original topic http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=774828 ; requested by creator of this topic [/Moderator]

[belugas]

What do you mean Leanden? You invented it??
And ho... HORROR AND SHOCK, Zuu wrote it???

[Leanden]

Ay, I did come up with this idea, and discussed it with Zuu as i can't write for r...

But i haven't been credited.

[peter1138]

Oh please...

http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=21727

[dihedral]

if all your glory lies in being credited for an idea, i feel sorry for you!
sure it is nice if one is credited - but fighting for it? making a fuss? c'mon!

[Yexo]

It's not your original idea, it has been suggested many times before. I'll give you one link: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=725289#p725289, but even there it's mentioned before. Not that those posts are from september 2008, before you even registered to tt-forums.net.

Zuu did a nice job implementing this and does not need to credit you for repeating that suggestion once again.

[Leanden]

I don't think you quite understand, i worked out exactly how the AI would work, not short of actually writing it, as i can't do that, I can upload an MSN conversation history file if ye be needing proof.

And i'm not fighting for it, just a comment ^^

[Zuu]

Ay, I did come up with this idea, and discussed it with Zuu as i can't write for r...

But i haven't been credited.

Way to go Zuu, I like the out of the box thinking you're applying here and in PAX. Mad props to you!

Not originally my idea with town cars, as this has been suggested for ages. But I was the first one to implement it. Or rather copy and paste parts of PAXLink and then link it together with a new main-loop. Fix bugs, add settings and fine tune. But thanks for your warm words anyways.

You're right I have not credited you, but I have neither claimed that the Idea was my Idea. (see above) I don't know if you are the person I discussed with, because the person on IRC had another nick (??Kalmar)

To sort this out, a user on #openttd (named ??Kalmar) asked about if someone could help him make an AI that builds cars driving around in towns. I gave him some pointers about the API how he could do it himself. But he didn't wanted to do it himself he wanted me to write the AI for him. We did discuss some things in the line of "put a depot in each town and build X cars and then remove the depot". Since I have been a member here on tt-forums for many years I have seen this suggestion before, so it wasn't really revolutionary to me. There was never a promise of an implementation between me and this user.

Yes, this user could have been credited and I'm sorry I did not do that. But also keep in mind that making the AI is work of 4-6 hours, even if much code is reused. The idea he came with was not really original.

I'm sorry I don't remember the nick exactly but it was two capital consonants and then 'Kalmar'.

Edit: JLKalmar it was

[Yexo]

You're right I have not credited you, but I have neither claimed that the Idea was my Idea. (see above) I don't know if you are the person I discussed with, because the person on IRC had another nick (??Kalmar)

To sort this out, a user on #openttd (named ??Kalmar) asked about if someone could help him make an AI that builds cars driving around in towns. I gave him some pointers about the API how he could do it himself. But he didn't wanted to do it himself he wanted me to write the AI for him. We did discuss some things in the line of "put a depot in each town and build X cars and then remove the depot". Since I have been a member here on tt-forums for many years I have seen this suggestion before, so it wasn't really revolutionary to me. There was never a promise of an implementation between me and this user.

Yes, this user could have been credited and I'm sorry I did not do that. But also keep in mind that making the AI is work of 4-6 hours, even if much code is reused. The idea he came with was not really original.

I'm sorry I don't remember the nick exactly but it was two capital consonants and then 'Kalmar'.

I don't think you quite understand, i worked out exactly how the AI would work, not short of actually writing it, as i can't do that, I can upload an MSN conversation history file if ye be needing proof.

I'm getting curious with whom you discussed it on MSN, as apparently wasn't Zuu.

[CommanderZ]

Lol, having civilian traffic in OTTD is very old idea, so WHY do you claim it is yours?

[Zuu]

I think this is what he want to be credited for:

From my logs:

Code: Select all

JLKalmar: AI founds company
JLKalmar: AI builds Road Depot
JLKalmar: AI builds 10-40 Cars randomly selected from available models with no orders
JLKalmar: AI destroys Road Depot
JLKalmar: AI borrows funds when required
JLKalmar: AI repeats building adjacent to road squares

[GeekToo]

Holy sh.., I guess I have to credit him too, because Convoy implements 5 of those 6 lines too.

So I guess I can expect a PM from him soon, like I'm sure he sent you before putting it on the forums.

Anyway, I'd like to thank you, Zuu, for actually making this idea real, and don't let this kind of BS stop you!

[Leanden]

Ay, JLKalmar is me... Jamie Luke Kalmar, email address: Phoenix-auria@hotmail.com, i added Zuu, aka Leif and i did outline this.

Now i feel like kinda an ass tho. Weird that my display name was JLKalmar though. should have been leanden on msn...

[Leanden]

Code: Select all

TrafficAI or something like that I think. 
14/03/2009  22:22:31  Jamie ZuuTrafficAI 
14/03/2009  22:22:45  Leif  Or JamAI hehe 
14/03/2009  22:22:50  Jamie  hehe 
14/03/2009  22:22:53  Jamie  thatd be nice :P 
14/03/2009  22:23:01  Leif  CongestionAI is more elegant though :) 

[planetmaker]

I think this is what he want to be credited for:

From my logs:

Code: Select all

JLKalmar: AI founds company
JLKalmar: AI builds Road Depot
JLKalmar: AI builds 10-40 Cars randomly selected from available models with no orders
JLKalmar: AI destroys Road Depot
JLKalmar: AI borrows funds when required
JLKalmar: AI repeats building adjacent to road squares

Holy s***. I feel sorry for you, Zuu, that you have to go through this. The idea isn't new and IMO there's no person who can claim clear credits to that. The only person who deserves credit IMO is you - you did take on that work upon you. And only you. Not all those lamers with their revolutionary ideas.

Please don't let your spirit down because of some people bull-s*** like seen here.

[Leanden]

Ok im actually getting sick of the flaming which is going on here, i simply joked that i had not been credited. Zuu can confirm this as a fact. If it had not been for my suggestion and conversation directly with him, he would not have begun work on this AI at that time. He may have produced it at a later date, but my conservation spurred Zuu to begin this AI. Now yes it's true that is not some amazing revolutionary idea, but at the end of the day, some of you really need to lighten up and spot when someone is being lighthearted. (Which is not now i might add...)

Incidentally Zuu, fantastic job.

[Rubidium]

This is a web based international forum and thus there is a big chance that vague jokes will be interpreted as if you are serious. In this case a lot of people interpreted it as if you were serious of which a number are native English speakers. I'd say that your (failed) attempt at being funny back fired upon you. Next time you should make it more clear that you're joking so everyone can ignore you instead of taking you serious.

[planetmaker]

And just to get the facts right, here an exerpt from the IRC log (14th March, UTC+1):

Code: Select all

 
16:58	<JLKalmar>	the roads seem empty with just my vehicles roaming about
16:58	<planetmaker>	run AIs
16:59	<planetmaker>	and you'll have in no time giant traffic jams.
16:59	<JLKalmar>	are there any Traffic AI?
16:59	<planetmaker>	many AIs which use RV only
16:59	<planetmaker>	like convoy which only uses busses.
16:59	<frosch123>	George: use action7 to check climate or cargo-availabilty
16:59	<planetmaker>	That fills towns pretty quickly
17:00	<JLKalmar>	hmm
17:00	<JLKalmar>	It would be better if there was a seperate AI for just cars
17:00	<frosch123>	JLKalmar: note, the AIs planetmaker is talking about are 0.7 stuff
17:01	<planetmaker>	uhm, yes :)
17:01	<JLKalmar>	i didnt understand that frosch...
17:01	<planetmaker>	OpenTTD v0.7.0-beta2
17:01	<JLKalmar>	the traffic jams wouldnt be too bad though
17:01	<JLKalmar>	it would be rather realistic
17:01	<planetmaker>	0.6.3 won't do
17:01	<JLKalmar>	is there a traffic AI in 0,7,0 beta?
17:02	<planetmaker>	there's no "traffic AI".
17:02	<planetmaker>	But there's a number of AIs which build many road vehicles.
17:02	<George>	frosch123: I tried to set it to FF and looks like it works as intended. What do you think about such a solution?
17:02	<planetmaker>	servicing the towns using them
17:02	<planetmaker>	or rather using them in order to service the towns and make money
17:02	<JLKalmar>	ay, but then u get loads of bus stops and the like
17:03	<Ammler>	[22:02][22:02] <planetmaker> there's no "traffic AI". <-- nice idea pm ;-)
17:03	<planetmaker>	sure, JLKalmar
17:03	<JLKalmar>	Ammler?
17:03	<Zuu>	Yep, but you wanted crowdy streets didn't you?
17:03	<Ammler>	a AI generating only RVs with no orders
17:03	<JLKalmar>	That would be good
17:03	<JLKalmar>	no orders RVs
17:03	<JLKalmar>	i wanted it crowded with cars
17:04	<JLKalmar>	not with bus stops :p
17:04	<George>	JLKalmar: That would be bad
17:04	<Ammler>	JLKalmar: there are some funny cars grfs...
17:04	<planetmaker>	why do you mind the bus stops?
17:04	<Zuu>	Ammler: Perhaps one MM airline, and then pumping out zero capacity RVs
17:04	<frosch123>	George: that will use the first refittable, so if you set the refit mask accordingly it should be fine
17:04	<JLKalmar>	because cars wouldnt go searching for bustops :p
17:04	<George>	You'll need it to have special vehicles and special code to make them not big problem on the road
17:05	<Ammler>	Zuu: can't the ai cheat?
17:05	<planetmaker>	JLKalmar: well. But it doesn't necessarily look like searching.
17:05	<JLKalmar>	i just had a thought of a temporary idea
17:05	<planetmaker>	Ammler: no
17:05	<Zuu>	Ammler: Nope
17:05	<JLKalmar>	use the cheat console to play as play 8 or 10 or whatever
17:05	<Ammler>	oh, that isn't fair :P
17:05	<JLKalmar>	build a road thing
17:05	<JLKalmar>	build loads of cars
17:05	<JLKalmar>	then change back to ur own player lol
17:05	<Zuu>	Ammler: Though you can cheat for it, change player to the AI and give it lots of money.
17:05	<JLKalmar>	ay
17:06	<Zuu>	That is how I keep my PAXLink AI alive :)
17:06	<JLKalmar>	PAXLink?
17:06	<JLKalmar>	whats that?
17:06	<Ammler>	hehe
17:06	<Zuu>	An AI than force citienses to airports and then flew them to other cities. :) muhahah
17:06	<planetmaker>	JLKalmar: the name of an AI
17:06	<planetmaker>	Which Zuu happens to be the author of
17:07	<planetmaker>	Everyone can write his/her own AI in squirrel
17:07	<Zuu>	Its "only" one about week of work, so it still strugels to make money.
17:07	<Ammler>	"her" might be obsolete :-(
17:07	<planetmaker>	:P
17:08	<JLKalmar>	ok ive looked it up
17:08	<JLKalmar>	know what it is :P

[dihedral]

Leanden: i dont even think you were joking - just thought that mentioning the word would get your neck out of it, eh?! if you do the work yourself - feel free to credit yourself. if you ask someone to do all the work for you, who, by the way, does have programming skills, and you just basically outlined a very vague procedure, don't expect a thing. anything given is a kind gesture, users requiring however is a pain up the fuzzy rear end!

[Benny]

Please stop flaming him..
Ignore him instead.