[REQUEST] Class 91 (Intercity 225)

s_tubb23 · Post by **s_tubb23** » 28 Oct 2004 13:49

Well here's a suggestion, the class 91, its a quick passenger train designed in the eighties and I think it looks quite cool. I think it was run by intercity and GNER. It was desinged to replace the intercity 125. It's got over 6000 horsepower so it doesn't need a 2nd engine it just has a "Driving Van Trailer" (DVT). I had a model train set when I was younger and this is the train that came with the set so I would love to see it in loco. Here's some pics .

Heres the stats:
Max Speed : 140 m.p.h.
Record Speed : 162 m.p.h.
Horsepower : 6090
Desinged : 1988-89

TheGrew · Post by **TheGrew** » 28 Oct 2004 14:31

Weight would be good plus what coaches.

gg190 · Post by **gg190** » 28 Oct 2004 14:33

I think this train would be a great idea for locomotion. I've always found the intercity 225 a very interesting train.

Does anyone know how succesful this train was? Only GNER use them, why? They're fast and powerful, why are there not more operators? The intercity 125 is everywhere.

TheGrew · Post by **TheGrew** » 28 Oct 2004 15:35

The Train would need its own coaches or we would have to increase the speed of the MK3 Carridge whci in the game is only rated at 125mph for intercity 125 trains.

metalangel · Post by **metalangel** » 28 Oct 2004 16:42

The train needs its own (carriages), really... or we could just do a set of Mk4s that you have to use if you want to unleash its true potential.

GNER only has them, true, but given GNER has a huge, long line that goes the length of the country at high speed, it's not like the train is underutilized. I'd imagine (I'm not 100% sure about this) they were designed for use on the ECML anyway, hence you don't see them elsewhere.

It is really a train dedicated to long, high-speed runs, and as a result there's not really anywhere else to genuinely need them - the WCML might not be suited. The 125, meanwhile, is very versatile, especially because it's diesel.

AndrewA · Post by **AndrewA** » 28 Oct 2004 16:57

The Class 91 was built specifically for the ECML electrification in the late 80s. But it still only runs at 125mph there. It was a development of the APT just without the tilting (and some other stuff), as the East Coast is straighter, and there is less need to tilt. The Mark 4s however are profiled so they could tilt in the future if needed. One reason they were'nt introduced on the West Coast (I suspect) was the fact that BR had a limited budget, and by the time they had been sucessfully implemented on the East Coast, BR had less money, with Networkers being introduced down south as well as 2nd gen DMUs, and in only a few years we were into privatisation. I believe the 91s have run tests on the West Coast though, I read something recently that the start of the Pendolino timetable recently beat it's record.

TheGrew · Post by **TheGrew** » 28 Oct 2004 17:53

If it uses tilters we could just make it possible to have APT coaches. Which can go upto 160mph so it is plenty fast enough.
Edit: Sorry

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 28 Oct 2004 23:00

Well, as you'd know if you actually read the thread instead of just hitting "reply", it doesn't tilt.

s_tubb23 · Post by **s_tubb23** » 29 Oct 2004 11:22

It is true it doesn't tilt but they were interested in making an intercity 250 using the same trains that would tilt, so if any modeller does start making these trains I suppose it would be up to them if they wanted it to tilt or not

s_tubb23 · Post by **s_tubb23** » 29 Oct 2004 11:32

I'm not 100% sure what carriages it uses but i found this pic and it says mark 4 TO(E)
http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/image.php?imgref=1104

AndrewA · Post by **AndrewA** » 29 Oct 2004 11:35

s_tubb23 wrote:It is true it doesn't tilt but they were interested in making an intercity 250 using the same trains that would tilt, so if any modeller does start making these trains I suppose it would be up to them if they wanted it to tilt or not

But the request is for the intercity 225, not the intercity 250. The intercity 225 does not tilt, although it could be adapted for it in the future.

And the Class 91 pulls Mark IVs, yes.

metalangel · Post by **metalangel** » 29 Oct 2004 16:49

In the fourth picture there at the top (where the 91 in Swallow livery is running 'backwards') it's pulling Mk3s, isn't it?

Not a popular option, I'd imagine, but we should still allow for it.

TheGrew · Post by **TheGrew** » 29 Oct 2004 21:42

Is it actuly needed soon after you get the APT which can go 160mph. And can tilt

AndrewA · Post by **AndrewA** » 30 Oct 2004 12:00

No, not for gameplay. IRL, then it is because the East Coast was electrified, so BR needs a 125mph at least capable trainset. The APT was failed, so you use it to create a useable loco with less features, but still suitable for day to day service.
But for gameplay, then definitely not. It's just that someone would like it in, because it looks cool, which it soooo does

.

mnorman · Post by **mnorman** » 31 Oct 2004 17:58

The class 91 IS needed for game balance, to make up for the fact that having a balanced game requires the APT to be removed, or so crippled that it might as well be removed.
My preferred high speed Brittish line-up of electrices would be class 85->class 86->class 90->class 91->class 390(Pendolino) for bendy routes and class 373 (Eurostar) for straight routes, cutting the APT entirely.

united100 · Post by **united100** » 02 Nov 2004 13:39

To clarify a few points raised in this thread.

The InterCity 225 was designed and built for the electrification of the East Coast main line. Just over 30 complete sets (Class 91 loco plus 9 Mark 4 coaches and a Mark 4 DVT) were built. The train is cleared to run at 140mph, but the ECML speed limit is only 125mph, hence they don't exceed that speed in service.

In practice, the coach sets have been used with a number of different locomotives, with 110 mph Class 90s substituting regularly (GNER have one on permanent hire) because there simply aren't enough full 225 trains to fulfill GNER's timetable and servicing schedule. The experimental 125mph Class 89 Co-Co electric locomotive was also brought out of retirement by GNER to try and plug the gaps, but I believe it is currently awaiting repair.

The train that the flat-end-first Class 91 is pulling actually consists of Mark 2 coaches. InterCity used to reallocate spare locos in the early days of the Class 91 coming into service before all the 225 coach sets were available. To this end, some Class 91s ended up working the ECML expresses with Mark 3 trains and and adapted HST power car acting as a DVT (all power for these trains was provided by the Class 91).

The InterCity 250 was a further (non-tilting) development of the IC 225, intended for the West Coast main line. It would have had considerably improved aerodynamics amongst other features. The project was, however, abandoned in the run up to rail privatisation.

After abandonment of the IC250 project, it was proposed to build a further batch of IC225s to work the WCML. I believe that an order was actually submitted, but the manufacturer chose not to fulfill it because they had also received orders for the first batches of Class 170 TuboStar DMUs and decided to fulfill those orders in preference to building further IC225s.

The spare cab at the back of the Class 91 loco was not originally intended to allow it to pull passenger trains "backwards", although in practice this has been its use. GNER still has to run the trains this way when there is a risk of snow drifts on the line. The original intention was that the Class 91 locos could work around the clock, hauling overnight freight trains, but with the number of Class 90s and surplus Class 92s and the transfer of all Class 91s to passenger only operator GNER, this capability has never been utilised.

AndrewA · Post by **AndrewA** » 02 Nov 2004 17:07

I didn't know (most, well some) of that. Very interesting.

s_tubb23 · Post by **s_tubb23** » 02 Nov 2004 22:08

wow thats is actually all new to me lol, soz I hjaven't said much in here lately it's beacuse I been playing San Andreas loads lol. It's like sum ppl been saying on here the train would look cool on the game and would be good to have in loco for jus eye candy purposes mostly lol

Dacer · Post by **Dacer** » 06 Nov 2004 21:55

The Class 91's and the Mark 4 carriages have a differnet profile than the Mark3's they are narrower at the top. Believe it or not the Mk4's were designed witha tilting train opertaion in mind. sadly it's never been fitted. The Class 91 is actually the power car from the APT with cabs and other modifications but the basics for the 91 came from the APT.

God I know some boring and un-interesting stuff do I

ChrisCF · Post by **ChrisCF** » 07 Nov 2004 01:33

Not as sad and boring as the fact that the service descriptions are typically 1S and 1E (1 for Express passenger) for the services to and from Scotland, 1D and 1L for services to Leeds, and 1X for the Eurostars, which can only run out of platforms 1 and 6 at Kings Cross (hence needing the 'X' for "stock out of specification"). First service to Leeds during the day might be 1X24, running as 5X24 while empty. Eurostars are usually allocated 5X (for out-of-spec) for KX-Leeds services, 5O for France and 5I for Belgium - this is because they form services 9Oxx and 9Ixx, which correspond to 90xx and 91xx in Euroland - 5 for ECS, 9 for International.

I know too much. Any time now, I expect someone to come banging down my door, and I'll probably offer them a cup of tea.

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[REQUEST] Class 91 (Intercity 225)

[REQUEST] Class 91 (Intercity 225)

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