Stupid Americans

[uzurpator]

note: i used "we" - excuse the generalisation

Aww - stupid americans. What a cool topic

George says one important thing - every stereotype has a source somehwere. The usual way of the stereotyped is to live in denail

(ferinstance - poles are considered overely 'individualistic' and outright stupid (krtaylor - please tell us some of the 'polish jokes'));

Where the stereotype originated? That's easy AMERICA

The main problem is that america is exporting stupidity - in a form of culture (or complete lack thereof). Please name ONE good art film from america that you could see in the last 5 years?

The whole american entertainment industry is to please the stupid (which is statistically about 50% of society). Everything american an european ever sees is flashy, colorful and lacking any substance, while being painfully standarized to 'save costs'.

This is how we perceive your people, your patriotism and your culture. Cool, flashy and lacking any depth. Is it so? I dunno - I never saw anything else. So it either is so, or you are making yourself a giant disservice.

And mostly - stop acting like an offended virgin when someone brings this up. Explain in a civil matter, and stop making two of the the most common mistakes:

- There are NO europeans! There are germans, dutch, french, poles... Each of these is a seperate country. If you will treat them collectively - you will get a collective backlash.
- America is not the greatest place of earth. yes, we know that your cars are bigger, your homes are bigger and that your women have bigger boobs. We just don't think that is the reason to claim superiority.

Oh - I could rant for hours - but this has to suffice for now.

[krtaylor]

The main problem is that america is exporting stupidity - in a form of culture (or complete lack thereof). Please name ONE good art film from america that you could see in the last 5 years?

I absolutely agree with you that America is exporting stupidity. But YOU are buying it, so what does that make you? Too bad that stupidity isn't like garbage, i.e. if you export it you don't have it any more. Exporting cultural stupidity just makes more stupid cultures.

The whole american entertainment industry is to please the stupid (which is statistically about 50% of society).

50% of ALL societies, though. And again, I agree with you there, and I don't at all like the American entertainment industry. I bet you think ever American loves Britney Spears...

Everything american an european ever sees is flashy, colorful and lacking any substance, while being painfully standarized to 'save costs'.

Yes, but then, aren't you establishing a stereotype in your minds? Is that really fair? I would never think that all Poles are stupid. Yes of course there are all those "stupid Pollack" jokes, but I think only stupid people expect them to be really true. I don't personally know any Poles except via the Internet, so I suppose maybe they are true, but I doubt it.

This is how we perceive your people, your patriotism and your culture. Cool, flashy and lacking any depth. Is it so? I dunno - I never saw anything else. So it either is so, or you are making yourself a giant disservice.

I'd say, the latter. However, I have to say, we do not shove our culture down your throats. You buy it of your own free will. What does that say about you?

- There are NO europeans! There are germans, dutch, french, poles... Each of these is a seperate country. If you will treat them collectively - you will get a collective backlash.

Hmm. Now why might that be?
- Are you saying that the different European countries are really all that different, and that the stereotypes about them might actually have some basis in truth?
- BTW, what are Americans? Mostly, Europeans. (Of course there are Africans, Asians, and Hispanics, but still much the majority is European.) And my understanding is that Europe is accumulating its own collection of Africans and others. So we shouldn't be all that different on that basis.

[DeletedUser21]

(sorry for my shouting)

Is this conversation leading to something? I guess not, so if we all stop this nonsense babbling about: 'we are much greater than you are', we are all humans, we make all stupid mistakes, thats why we make progress because we are able to learn from them! and with discussing about eachothers (country's / nations (whatever)) mistakes will end up in a topic with over 6000 pages long. To make a long story short: The tt server isn't capable of storing all the problems we humanity causes. So do everybody a favour not to start this over and over again, it will chase people away everytime we discuss why someone is bashing someone others country and who dumb someone is, even with big texts, long debates and infinite quotes in quotes we won't be able to find one sollution. OBVIOUS we are human, we do this all the time, we can't live without eachother but still we bash others into oblivion because they have another opinion and vision about all sorts of matter in the world.

Dumb but on the other hand; we learn from this, and not by debating our ass of or punching eachothers head of but to be openminded and accept eachother and find a solution on both party's is that to much to ask??

I think that this topic is dead but artificially held alive, if I were a moderator I would have closed this because it is heading only to chaos and disorder causing to hate eachother, thats my opinion and discuss that all day but I say this on behalf of everyone who thinks that bashing eachother and talking for years doesn't work out but that we all have to participate in order to correct ourselfs to be open-minded and accept what everyone else has to say.

-X to Earth... ... ... no-one responding?!-[/i]

[krtaylor]

Well, I don't hate anybody, anyway. If people hate me, that's their problem, I suppose.

[uzurpator]

I absolutely agree with you that America is exporting stupidity. But YOU are buying it, so what does that make you? Too bad that stupidity isn't like garbage, i.e. if you export it you don't have it any more. Exporting cultural stupidity just makes more stupid cultures.

Technical note. Never use such argument. This is basicly - "We are stupid, but so are you!". This yields the result opposite to the intended. Also you force the person you talk to to defend against his/her own argument. This results in a notion, that you cannot do it yourself (read: that you are stupid, and don't understand the argument). Also - it is inpolite and considered bad manners.
Don't do it - it undermines your own credibility.

Also - this falls under "offended virgin" reaction. "We do! But you do too". You get what I mean.

Anyway - as I said below - 50% of all people are morons. This is well established fact, and nothing to say here. These people are the consumers of the "stoopid" culture and will buy it whenever the occasion. It does not matter if they live in New York or Sankt Petersburg.

The problem you fail to see, is that each of the european countries has 1000 year old tradition and folklore. This is deeply entrenched and cannot be ingored - each of the european countiries has its own language, history, culture and traditions - there is a natural resistance against "americanisation" even if a majority happily devours it.

I bet you think ever American loves Britney Spears...

Actually - I don't. (can't say for the rest of the folks here)

Yes, but then, aren't you establishing a stereotype in your minds? Is that really fair?

Noone can create a full image without full data. If all we ever get to see is Britney and McDonald's then that is the image we will create.

BTW - Life is not fair.

I would never think that all Poles are stupid.

Neither I think that all Americans are stupid. That is only 5,699,999,999 people left for you to convince.

Yes of course there are all those "stupid Pollack" jokes, but I think only stupid people expect them to be really true. I don't personally know any Poles except via the Internet, so I suppose maybe they are true, but I doubt it.

I actually met a few Americans, but they were a very specific group, so I cannot draw any conslusions.

I'd say, the latter. However, I have to say, we do not shove our culture down your throats. You buy it of your own free will. What does that say about you?

As I said before - Don't try to fight an argument this way. Besides - you don't have a full picture of Europe. Ofc neither of us has a full picture of USA - but that's where you chime along showing it.

Hmm. Now why might that be?
- Are you saying that the different European countries are really all that different, and that the stereotypes about them might actually have some basis in truth?

Each and every stereotype has a grain of truth in it. Each of european countries evolved in a different way throuh the history. Slavic countries are different then germanic ones and those are different then nordic. When you generalize you will end up with something that does not fit anywhere. That will offend every european you wil meet. America is mostly homogenous, the misteake you make is considering europe also being homogenous while it is NOT!

- BTW, what are Americans? Mostly, Europeans. (Of course there are Africans, Asians, and Hispanics, but still much the majority is European.) And my understanding is that Europe is accumulating its own collection of Africans and others. So we shouldn't be all that different on that basis.

Americans are Americans - after all those years it is a different creation of a man.

[krtaylor]

America is nothing like as homogenous as you think. I admit that it's more so than Europe, because we basically have one language and you have, what, a dozen? But the American people are hardly a monolith.

I agreed with you about the stupidity of American culture. I also agreed that 50% of people are stupid. But that applies equally to ALL cultures, including yours and mine both. It's a wash. It can't be used to say that one is more stupid than the other.

So, we come down to, what's your point? Of course there are stupid Americans, just like there are stupid Poles, French, Russians, and Luxemburgers - in short, there are stupid people everywhere. The question is, are Americans stupider than others? You cannot prove that; in fact, I think there are good (but not conclusive) arguments of the opposite. But it's irrelevant.

As long as we all know that stereotypes are just that - inaccurate generalizations - then we'll be fine. We all need to be more careful about making them.

Do a search in the forums for "stupid Americans", and then for "stupid Poles", and you'll see what I mean. Americans in general take a lot more abuse here than any other nationality. There's nothing wrong with arguing about American policies that you think are stupid, just like I could argue with stupid things Chirac or Putin have done. But I've never said generally that Poles are stupid, or Russians are stupid, etc.

[spaceman-spiff]

Can we stop this bashing
I haven't read all of this but if someone is really offended he only has to point me to the right reply

I'm not joining any bashing topic from now on, as someone said before, this topic isn't leading to anything, nobody moves a foot, everybody has a point, nobody wins

[Rob]

Can we stop this bashing
I haven't read all of this but if someone is really offended he only has to point me to the right reply

I'm not joining any bashing topic from now on, as someone said before, this topic isn't leading to anything, nobody moves a foot, everybody has a point, nobody wins

You forgot to add : everybody looses.

[Jice]

nobody moves a foot

Is it an opinion or a fact ? We can consider a one-way circle is the best-way to infinite movement

Sorry I can't resist to say a stupid joke

[scrat]

Okay, okay, I'll stop. Although I do find it interesting that the protests only started when an America basher got a taste of his own medicine and I cannot help but wonder how a thread called 'stupid palestinians' would have fared.

[scrat]

Please name ONE good art film from america that you could see in the last 5 years?

One man's art is the other man's kitsch, but how about "The Butterfly Effect"?

[George]

You said your opinion about the event. To prove, that it is a fact, not an opinion, you have to prove, that it was not the massive military attack of US on Yugoslavia.To prove, that it was not the massive military attack, it is required to prove, that it was impossible to solve the problem without massive military attack. By saying this I do not mean without weapon, but I mean without massive bombing. If you will think, than you will understand, that is impossible to prove (or disprove) it without a test, and no one can make such a test. So, your opinion (and my opinion too) can not be proved or disproved. That means that they can not be considered as facts, only as opinions. Understand?

"Understand?". Pfeh. Pedantry works so much better from a position of superiority, you know? Anyway, I'll humor you: Proof that the attacks on Yugoslavia were not the work of the US, but the work of NATO. Ready?

Do you want to say, that US did not attack? The fact, that other countries took part in the operation, does not disprove that US did. So, If you try to build your conclusions on someone's participation, than they are not asseptable.

It's your opinions, which you -- despite protestations of innocence -- do try to pass off as facts, that I have something against.

Read my posts. I stand, as from the beginning of the thread, at the same position. I say my opinion, but suggest other people to give facts to disprove it. Because I understand, that if I'd say, that I represent facts, you could ask me for the provements. So, do not arrogate me the words, I've never said.

I mentioned the reason for the bombings (-- to prevent more Serbian attrocities). You retorted by saying what you just quoted. I merely followed up with stating fact that Milosevic -- as leader of the nation (state/country for the semantically challenged) -- stands accused of warcrimes at the UN Warcrimes Tribunal. Basically, your rebuttals suck, comrade.

The fact, that someone stands at Tribunal does not mean, that this one is at fault. Don't you understand it?

You're making another mistake. It is not up to me to disprove your assertions; it is up to you to prove your assertions and you have done nothing of the kind.

Then you are making a mistake. Because facts is the thing, that needed to be proved. I always (read the thread from the beginning) positioned my posts as opinion. But you say, that you are saying facts, not opinions, that means you have to prove them, not me to disprove them.

"Because US needs to protect themself from being condemn for the military attack of Yugoslavia". At no point does this statement contains any qualifiers indicating that it is merely your opinion. You're stating this -- and other ludicrous things -- as fact and hence put yourself in a very vulnerable position.

Should I write "IMHO" in the each sentence of this thred for you? I think it is enought that I said it in the beginning.

In the meaning of the word as defined in the dictionary. In this case 'country' suffices. As would 'state'. (Guess why they call it the "United Nations").

Code: Select all

ООН Организация Объединенных Наций U.N.O. (United Nations Organization)

As you can see, it is not Организация Объединённых Государств. So, I suggest that N in UNO means people, not countries. I'd very suprised if the whole Russian is mistaken about it.

Just admit that you are prejudiced against Americans, you silly man. This nightmare could end fairly quickly.

I have nothing against Americains, krtaylor or John, gor example. I have something against US, but, as always, it is only my opinion.

Well, apart from the fact that the prosecutors of Warcrimes Tribunal have never indicted President Clinton, is what you just stated a fact or an opinion?

If I would be Warcrimes Tribunal, he'd stand there. So, its a defect in the work of Warcrimes Tribunal.

NATO, Georgi. NATO. You know, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Georgij, if you want to use this notation. But I'd like to use George. And again, the fact, that not only US took part in the action does not prove that US did not. But if you want to see it this way, ok, lets say US and NATO has to answer for the massive military attack of Yugoslavia.

You and your dictionary are gravely mistaken.

www.lingvo.ru
Are you sure?

2Owen. Could you clarify it?

Spare me -- and any reader who has not been lulled into a comatose stupor by now -- your indignation. You treat others (Americans for instance) with utter contempt, calling them names, swearing at them,

Show me any plase in the forum where I said something, that can be concidered as bad words about someone, but US. It is a forum, the fact can be proved by search. If you will not prove this, I shall stop answering to you, because you way of debates wuold be considered as unasseptable.
And, it starts to seem to me, that your post is more rude, than mine.

2krtaylor. Is it my illusion or scart became rude?

I have already cited a proper dictionary source. If that is not proof enough for you then I think you are unsalvageable.

Looks like you pointed me to a vocabulary (the list of words with meanings), not a dictionary (the list of words with translations), that is not correct in this case.

[scrat]

Show me any plase in the forum where I said something, that can be concidered as bad words about someone, but US. It is a forum, the fact can be proved by search. If you will not prove this, I shall stop answering to you, because you way of debates wuold be considered as unasseptable.
And, it starts to seem to me, that your post is more rude, than mine.

<yawn>

you previously wrote to krtaylor:

What a dirty put-up job in American style. Crying or Very sad I was speaking only of a one point, and I'm right in it. You understand it, but need to protect yourself. You make a generalisation, that I'm right in everything, prove, that it is not so, and count, that I am not right in the starting point. It's a wonderful example of standard scenario for US behaviour. And after all this you surprise, that people generalise about Americans? Then you are not stupid, you are idiots. And the worst thing is that you clever idiots with weapons.

I fought, that there are normal people in America, seeing lots of your good posts in the different threads, but now I see, that when the question comes to the question of politics, all the Americans becomes uniform idiots, who do not and do not want to understand anything, who believe the "facts" prepared for them by their mass media without any doubt, who uses the simple put-up manipulation with any information they hear to prove their own opinion, and highly surprise, that other people are not caught with such manipulation. And after that you try to "save" the people from their mistakes. f*** off.

----------------

I stop speaking about politics with Americans. They proved the topic, they made.

PS. I still believe that there good people in America, good doctors, builders, clever scientifics, what a pity, that they have a government, that made them political idiots.
PPS. Sorry for all the non Americans members of the forums for this post.

<more yawn>

You, Sir, are a hypocrite and a pompous fool to boot. You can count yourself to be extremely lucky that I have already publicly promised to leave you alone, because of other people's sensitivities. 'Nuff said.

*plonk*.

[krtaylor]

If we all treat each other with respect then there is nothing to worry about.

[George]

Show me any plase in the forum where I said something, that can be concidered as bad words about someone, but US.

you previously wrote to krtaylor:

He is from US. And I asked about not US. So, should I count that you could not prove even this simple statement?
as BTW for you. krtayilor in PM acheived much better results in debates about Yugoslavia than you.

[spaceman-spiff]

Stupid topics
Everybody wants to have discussions, but they all turn out like this

[Andrex]

...But I also live here, this is my home, and I take serious offense to the narrow ignorant stereotype that you "enlightened" Europeans have of us. I also have the right to call the rest of you a**holes for your irrational generalization of myself, my family and my friends.

Beside europeans, you can perfectly add latin americans, asians, africans and why not, australians, to the list.

You see european criticisms only because the forums are populated by europeans mainly, but you can bet that the rest of the world agrees with them. Maybe because we don't watch US television? ( = the largest disinformation source in the world)

I'm sorry but the reelection of Bush is one more reason for terrorist to strike your country, and the rest of the world will be watching it on CNN when that happens. A piece of advice: try to stay at home.

[Overlord1191]

Well after about a week, flaming and arguing over every stupid detail of what's happened in the world in the last 225 years can the moderator lock the topic and I want to repeat my original purpose.

All I want is for the people in the forum to treat each other with some respect. I am not going to post hate and stereotypes about other nations, cultures, races, religious etc. We are a community. Can we act like one? A lot of people here have said some ridiculous stuff and some people really made themselves look bad.

Let's just respect each other please? Debate politics all day, that is great. But try to keep from disrespecting each other because we have a different opinon. That's all.

If a moderator does not lock this then I'm just going to get another flame so please lock it. There's really nothing to discuss, this is a plea nothing more.

[spaceman-spiff]

I agree that we've had enough bashing for this moth