Swedish [mini] Trainset | Released!

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 02 Apr 2006 12:10

I think a white line as in the picture might make it look better.

fire87 · Post by **fire87** » 02 Apr 2006 12:59

Actually, I think I will try to lead this set. Since there ain't that much happening in the NTS-topic, and I want to do something other than just surfing, I've decided that I will give this set a go and try to lead and maintain it.

Off course, if all of you others agree then

Will try to get a spreadsheet of the trains up and running in a couple of days, and since OzTrans already said that he can code this set too (what is it he's not coding nowadays?) he can then expect a spreadsheet in his PM. If he decides that it's good enough, I will post it here. Or should I do it the other way around?
And now I'm waiting for the Danish trainset to be revived

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 02 Apr 2006 15:06

Purno wrote:I think a white line as in the picture might make it look better.

Maybe. It will be a bit thick though (should only be 1/3 of a pixel, I think).
[...testing...]
I think you're right! Thanks.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 02 Apr 2006 15:13

You got talent! Keep up the good work!

OzTrans · Post by **OzTrans** » 03 Apr 2006 00:00

fire87 wrote:Actually, I think I will try to lead this set. ...

Good on you; to start you could do some research on the Y6, Y7, Ubf7z and Ufv. Akalamanaia sent me the sprites (with some data), but I still need the train arrangement. There is a passenger coach, a passenger coach with baggage compartement and a small baggage van.

Further, I already have the Rc6 and the Y2. They just need coding.

AndersI wrote: ... T43 ...

That engine does look very good; you have nicely captured the fact that the cabin is wider than the body. But you should look at the wheel area. Down there are air tanks (in the centre) and that rather huge spring/shock assembly between the wheels. I think you should fill those gaps. Once you got this one perfect, look at recolouring it. There are many more liveries, may be about 4 would do very nicely.

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 03 Apr 2006 18:58

OzTransLtd wrote:That engine does look very good; you have nicely captured the fact that the cabin is wider than the body. But you should look at the wheel area....

Thanks

Something like this?

jvassie · Post by **jvassie** » 03 Apr 2006 19:56

Yeah, that looks much better AndersI! Keep at it!

OzTrans · Post by **OzTrans** » 04 Apr 2006 00:29

AndersI wrote: ... T43 ...

Yes, very good. Now the other views please ...

I've just noticed that the T43 is listed as 14.24 m in length. That would warrant that it be 7/8th or even 6/8th in length. Yours is 8/8th. Think about that.

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 04 Apr 2006 09:53

OzTransLtd wrote:I've just noticed that the T43 is listed as 14.24 m in length. That would warrant that it be 7/8th or even 6/8th in length. Yours is 8/8th. Think about that.

I'm thinking

Is there a document/post somewhere defining the TT 'scale'? I'm sure there is, but a preliminary Search didn't give me anything substantial. Purno's tutorial wasn't very explicit on the subject either.

I just played along with the same size as the RC6, but after looking closer at other grf:s it seems the RC6 is not the best starting point - the side view seems to be too much from the side, almost no roof, and the size seems to be off, too.

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 04 Apr 2006 11:42

AndersI wrote:Is there a document/post somewhere defining the TT 'scale'? I'm sure there is, but a preliminary Search didn't give me anything substantial. Purno's tutorial wasn't very explicit on the subject either.

Indeed, I believe several sets have their own 'scale'. TT doesn't have a set scale anyways, as a passenger coachs is as long as a bus.

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 04 Apr 2006 17:39

Purno wrote:TT doesn't have a set scale anyways

No, I know that, but people seem to have their preferences... If OzTransLtd thinks the T43 is too long, he obviously has some kind of scale in mind.

So, how many meters (approximately) is the 8/8, 7/8 and 6/8 sprite sizes?
And what effect should the shortening have on the |, \ and / views? Pixel count, please.

Remember, I'm a complete newbie when it comes to TTD graphics, up till now I have only played the game as recreation, it was just the sight of the Y6 that got me started wanting to create more Swedish trains.

OzTrans · Post by **OzTrans** » 04 Apr 2006 18:39

AndersI wrote: ... If OzTransLtd thinks the T43 is too long, he obviously has some kind of scale in mind. ...

Yes, he does. I'll be back on that subject later today.

EDIT:

When it comes to choose a scale, the following needs to be taken into account :

First, || and /\ views are half (multiple of 2 pixels) as long as the horizontal (multiple of 4 pixels) view, and that is measured along the roof line or base of the vehicle.

All references below to number of pixels are for horizontal view only, and adjustments need to be made for all other views.

a) disregarding articulated vehicles, the maximum length is 32 pixels or 8/8th (length needs to be a multiple of 4 pixels). Further we can have vehicle lengths from 3/8th to 8/8th.

b) then 1 pixel should be taken off for the gap between the vehicles, however this gap of 1 pixel is normally filled for closed coupled vehicles, such as MU-Trains or modern passenger coaches; and disregarded for other than horizontal views. Even if this gap is virtually invisible with some trains, there should still be some sort of distinction between individual vehicles (wagons).

Now there is a real difference between the length of locomotives and wagons, passenger coaches in particular; but in TTD scale we cannot really implement both of them to scale. So using different scales for wagons and locomotives makes sense. In Europe, standard modern passenger cars are around 26.5 meters and locomotives around 18.5 meters. That would mean :

. modern passenger wagons (26.5 m) = 8/8th or 0.8 meters per pixel rounded to the nearest multiple of 4 pixels.

. locomotives (18.5 m) = 8/8th or 0.6 meters per pixel rounded to the nearest multiple of 4 pixels.

If a locomotive is longer than 19 meters, then it is almost always an articulated engine and can therefore be implemented as such.

I would say :

. engines (steam without tender) of 18.5 meters = 8/8th (adjust other lengths accordingly).
. passenger wagons, including MU-Trains of 26.5 meters = 8/8th.
. long freight wagons (with quad axles) = 8/8th.
. standard freight wagons (with twin axles) = 7/8th.
. narrow gauge, 1/8th less than above.

That would make the T43 of 14.4 m = 24.9 pixels or 24 pixels minus 1 for the gap = 23 pixels long.

If you look at my avatar, those 3 trains (SBB Re450 [S-Bahn Zürich], SBB IC 2000 Driving Trailer and BLS Re465) are implemented to true scale, all are articulated and use 1 pixel per 0.4 m. Those were my first attempts on drawing trains. But they would not work very well compared to other TTD features, such as size of stations (platforms would need to be at least 10 tiles long) and the limited size of the TTD map.

There are other measurements. The height of a vehicle is 8 pixels, then you add another 4 pixels for the roof (as seen from an angle above). The catenary is 14 pixels of the ground, so the centre of pantographs (when up) are on pixel row 14 of the vehicle.

BTW, the French set uses a strict standard when it comes to vehicle lengths, which I do not know, but they may want to share that info with us.

I hope this will help; maybe Purno could add that to his tutorial (if it is not already there), so all those newbies can get some ideas what is involved when designing train sets.

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 05 Apr 2006 16:18

OzTransLtd wrote:
AndersI wrote: ... If OzTransLtd thinks the T43 is too long, he obviously has some kind of scale in mind. ...
Yes, he does.

Thanks very much! While you were creating your comprehensive post I edited the picture some ten posts up, but it seems I have some more pixel shaving to do

We'll see what comes out of it. The / \ views are very difficult. Everyone should try to draw one of these, and then send praise to those who have already mastered the art and given us so many nice trains!

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 06 Apr 2006 15:35

OK, here is a shorter (6/8) version of the T43. PLMKWYT.

nguwland · Post by **nguwland** » 06 Apr 2006 19:17

That's looking pretty awesome

Purno · Post by **Purno** » 06 Apr 2006 19:21

yep, that's looks very good

OzTrans · Post by **OzTrans** » 06 Apr 2006 23:42

AndersI wrote: ... T43 ...

Very nice job, but can the lower headlight really be seen when looking at it side on ? May be you should remove the lights in horz view.

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 07 Apr 2006 15:26

OzTransLtd wrote:can the lower headlight really be seen when looking at it side on ?

Probably not. As I said before, I just looked at the RC6 and did the T43 in a similar vein. It's not as if it is very difficult to change

The remaining lights looks a bit too bright, too. Is yellow or (off-)white the preferred colour for lights?

AndersI · Post by **AndersI** » 07 Apr 2006 15:35

DanMacK wrote:A Dm3 grinds through the countryside on the head of a long ore train

Looks very nice, although the color doesn't ring any bells for me...

DanMacK, may I use (part of) your Dm3 as a starting point for a D (or Da) engine? A Dm is essentially a pair of Da's without one pair of wheels on each, a Dm3 also has the middle part without two pairs, and if I'm going to try my hand at a D (Da) I'd better get my proportions right from the beginning.

DanMacK · Post by **DanMacK** » 07 Apr 2006 17:52

Sure, by all means. Just wait until I finish the sprites

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