Pikka's Basic Industries (PBI) - 1.5 6th of September 2008

[DJ_Izumi]

I'm using this GRF however I can't seem to be able to construct water towers in tropical, under any circumstances. I try to build a water tower and I'm alerted that I must build the water tower in a town. Thing is, I am trying to do just that. Not even on the outskirts, even in the CENTER Of town on a cleared square, it still says I can't construct the tower because I'm not in the town. This makes it sort of hard to facilitate the growth of desert towns that don't built water towers on their own.

[DaleStan]

Don't clear the tile first.

[DJ_Izumi]

Can you explain that with more depth? You mean the tile can't be clear? It has to have a city building on it and the tower basicly replaces it?

[Comm Cody]

YES! and welcome to the world of PBI.

[DJ_Izumi]

Okay, I had never thought of that trying, on account of generally being pounded by the 'Building in the way' messages you get.

[PikkaBird]

YES! and welcome to the world of PBI.

But it has nothing to do with PBI. PBI doesn't modify the water tower at all.

[Eddi]

I would like to play with the food in temperate, but I have a slight problem, that I don't seem to get anything that would accept food. That is at least without any town NewGrf or with Suburban Renewal loaded either before or after PBI. I am playing OpenTTD with cargodest (which is based on nightly and might be perhaps month old, but not more).

Would anybody please be so kind and add a note, preferably to the parameter description in the wiki along the lines of "This setting needs grf x, y or z to be also loaded in OpenTTD/TTDP/both/..."? The TTRS seems to be one of x, y or z, but I suppose more are known, so if you know more, please share that knowledge.

Thank you.

May I try to rephrase that question in my interpretation:

Is there a town set that adds food to the default houses, without introducing any new houses?

[michael blunck]

[...] Is there a town set that adds food to the default houses, without introducing any new houses?

No, that´s impossible. But I think you know it.

regards
Michael

[DJ_Izumi]

I'm having issues with map generation with this set. The problem is that many industries are generated in absurd areas. Like clusters of 30 industries packed into one area of the map and such, even two, three, four times redundant industries. It really effects playability with this set, while I enjoy the improved depth it adds to the game, it leaves me regenerating and regenerating maps over and over agian untill I get a reasonable industry layout.

[LaDoncella]

reduce the number of starting industries ?

[Raichase]

reduce the number of starting industries ?

Indeed - I always set my new games to "low" or even "none".

[Badger]

reduce the number of starting industries ?

Indeed - I always set my new games to "low" or even "none".

As do I. More always pop up anyway!

[PikkaBird]

reduce the number of starting industries ?

Or increase the number or size of starting towns...

[JacobD88]

PikkaBird, a question for the next release as a search of the thread really only suggests to modify the values in the GRF, but can you add a switch/parameter that allows you to change the stockpiling values?

The 700t-1000t limit dependant on industry can be a little too low with efficient networks (especially if you get 7-tile+ [14-unit+] trains supplying/distributing which typically deliver 300-400 tonnes of a given material at any time)...

It would be nice to be given the option to change these values in a range of say 256-8192 tons for non-cheating games (which would require much higher stockpiles)...

A suggestion that would also be nice in tandem with this would be a monthly charge for holding cargo produced by the recipient industry for holding goods over a certain value in tonnes longer than a month without them being taken away... This could ultimately cause a drop in production (and therefore acceptance meaning that pre-product "raw" materials would stockpile even more) if you still did nothing to remove the excess products... I realise this is not really PBI related, but might be a nice addition...

Apart from that still loving PBI and UKRS after all this time

[DaleStan]

A suggestion that would also be nice in tandem with this would be a monthly charge for holding cargo

Who would be charged?

[JacobD88]

A suggestion that would also be nice in tandem with this would be a monthly charge for holding cargo

Who would be charged?

The player(s) supplying the goods to the industry, with the largest supplier getting the largest penalty... Afterall why persist in over-supplying an industry to the degree that it just stockpiles? Any player doing this must simply be not paying attention to their network efficiency (so why not receive a penalty for neglect?) or simply using the industry as a warehouse where any penalty could represent "storage fees" for those players intending to abuse the industry this way...

I have to admit i fall foul of the latter, i usually whisk any excess materials off to the next PBI industry of the same type... Which as it stands means i make lots more money for abusing stock-piling to minimise "excess and wastage" from my (mostly) efficient trains... Surely i should be punished for using the industry as a warehouse

As to finished goods leaving the industry... Penalties could apply to the player who sends the most raw-materials but takes the least products from the industry... Why supply materials for what you won't take away?

Now for puposes of co-op games where one player may act as "raw materials supplier" and the other as "goods supplier" there could (and should) be an option to turn this on/off seperately to the above

Hope that clears up what i was suggesting

[wallyweb]

A suggestion that would also be nice in tandem with this would be a monthly charge for holding cargo produced by the recipient industry for holding goods over a certain value in tonnes longer than a month without them being taken away... This could ultimately cause a drop in production (and therefore acceptance meaning that pre-product "raw" materials would stockpile even more) if you still did nothing to remove the excess products... I realise this is not really PBI related, but might be a nice addition..

Transpot Tycoon and Transport Tycoon Deluxe, after a fashion, already do this right out of the box. Check out the rates tables where the rate per ton reduces over the period of time the cargo is carried. To see this for yourself, run a train efficiently between two points and check the payments at the end of each trip. Then stop that train for several months thus allowing cargo to accumulate at the source station. Then start the train once again and compare the payment to those earned in the first part of the test.

[JacobD88]

A suggestion that would also be nice in tandem with this would be a monthly charge for holding cargo produced by the recipient industry for holding goods over a certain value in tonnes longer than a month without them being taken away... This could ultimately cause a drop in production (and therefore acceptance meaning that pre-product "raw" materials would stockpile even more) if you still did nothing to remove the excess products... I realise this is not really PBI related, but might be a nice addition..

Transpot Tycoon and Transport Tycoon Deluxe, after a fashion, already do this right out of the box. Check out the rates tables where the rate per ton reduces over the period of time the cargo is carried. To see this for yourself, run a train efficiently between two points and check the payments at the end of each trip. Then stop that train for several months thus allowing cargo to accumulate at the source station. Then start the train once again and compare the payment to those earned in the first part of the test.

I'm afraid i was aware of this, though i can see what you mean by it performing a similar function, what I'm trying to propose is a specific penalty for how your use of an industry will affect your choices...

The problem with the current system is that it only applies to materials/goods in transport from the moment they are picked up, meaning that if the materials/goods are just left in a industry stockpile there is no penalty... only through station ratings (and ultimately council opinion) is a player affected by stock being left behind, and this is for just the stock held at a station not held at the industry...

In addition for the case of raw materials over-filling the stockpile, your only penalty is that these materials will stack up at the station once the stockpile is full and every-so-often some will "disappear", if you whisk excess away quick enough to another industry you don't lose the excess, and can still make lots of money for it...

This is bad on two counts... You are not penalised for using the stock-pile at the industry as a warehouse, and apart from the "disappearing" materials/goods and the "time in transport" penalty, you still can get away by doing it with little consequence (especially once you are a multi-million ++insert currency here++ transport company)

What I'm proposing is that players receive appropriate penalties for abusing industry stock-piles in the manner i mentioned in the posts above

As well as my initial request/suggestion for the option to expand/contract the stock-pile values through a switch or parameter somewhere to add some variation to each PBI game i start...

[wallyweb]

...

Note that the name of the game is Transport Tycoon, not Industrial Tycoon. The development of Industrial sets such as PBI and George's ECS Industries were to add some realism to the graphics of a game as well as the supply of cargoes to a game. The industries themselves do not generate any income or expenses. In real life, a transport company is not penalized by an industry's decision to accumulate inventory. The penalties only occur after the transport company commits to providing service. In TTDX, an industry will not place cargo at a station until that station is first serviced by some method of transport. As soon as that cargo is deposited at a station, the clock starts ticking on the transportation rates. If you are able to consistently generate good profits, that is a measure of the efficiency of your networks.

[RSE]

First of all, thanks for that great piece of work! I´m playing my first games with PBI + Brick Chain Vector right now (new OTTD nightly and PBI recently downloaded from your wiki) and found a bug:

The Engineers Yard, when supplied with too much gravel, sais that it doesn´t accept more fuel oil any more. I haven´t ever supplied fuel oil to that. Same with "fuel stockpiling nearing maximum level (800kL)".

And another thing: Why do industries, that are supplied to, close? Wouldn´t it be more realistic, that an industry (only) closes if nothing is supplied to it? But this is assumably controled by the OTTD system and not by PBI, is it?