Project Organization Thread

[Ben_Robbins_]

For naming convention, again I think when we can sort the repository a little easier then it's worthwhile having. Not meaning to sound hinting here, as Jupix has said he's working on it when he has time. I have the handful of files I have recently been working on listed in the following way on my computer, just for ease of keeping track. So I would suggest something similar.

The props page needs to have any files which are used for making up new sprites, but are usually not sprites in themselves. Also standardised textures, such as the pavement. In some cases standardised sprites can be helpful for post-render editing as well, such as the flat grass sprite. I will upload anything I have used for pavements at some point if people want it, but I'm always sceptical of this as it seems a bit off standardising things merely because I've used it.

Also there is a texture page somewhere around. It's not 'standardised' textures as such, but just a handful that I uploaded to see if they were used. I have many more, but wonder if there needed. I don't usually here cries for help finding textures, people seem ok with that, so maybe only standardised ones are needed.

edit: 70+% on the progress bar is a little bit ambitious. It's really not that high. Note all 3 zoom level sprites.
edit2: what's the difference between stone/rocks?

[neob]

edit: 70+% on the progress bar is a little bit ambitious. It's really not that high. Note all 3 zoom level sprites.
edit2: what's the difference between stone/rocks?

let me start from edit2, no idea i only made the table, with this in mind now i can say there is 42 sprites on that page 30 of which marked as Done, which translates to 70%

if they are missing some steps, then we should rethink/update their status, at the moment there is only unclaimed WIP and done.

[GeekToo]

Yes Neob,
I updated the download page, and now I moved the "picture" part to the subsection. The way I see it, the "main" download page should only contain recommended tars, i.e. one or two of the best available tars, and alternatives can be moved to the subsections of the tracker. That way people have an overview of high quality tars on the main page, and when they want uncompleted/alternative graphics they can use the subsections.

So, IMHO we're working on one continuously growing set of graphics that is called recommended, or main or whatever, where the big pack makers or occasional downloaders can get their tars. For people that want to finetune their graphics, alternatives are present with pictures on the subsections (where the 'recommended' download is marked as such.

[Ben_Robbins_]

neob: Ah sorry, I thought it was referring the to total sprite replacement.

I agree to Geektoo on this one, just I would replace 'sub-sections' with 'sub-pages'.

[neob]

as i understand it, the tracker pages are for tracking of the final BaseSet sprites for use by the devs, its not even a download list.
so i am not sure it the right place for the alternative downloads, so the files page should be a better fit for it for the time being.

right now the file page divided to:

• Extra Zoom levels BaseSet files - the with links to the trucker and suppose to hold the BaseSet/final product or maximum few best candidates.
• Extra Zoom levels Additional files - the rest of the files.

we can seprate the "recommended" out of the rest but before we start importing those files from the files list we first need to finish merging the bottom two lists and finalize their layout, i am not sure that we are going to get enough content that we going to need to start spliting it between sub pages, maybe a full list like some requested will be better at this point?


also with time the BaseSet should take less and less place to the point it will be replaced with one release file.
so eventually this whole page will be all about the non BaseSet files or Additional's.

[Ben_Robbins_]

My reasoning for splitting it between pages isn't because of the amount there is, but to avoid people who just appear and grab to avoid the mistake of downloading multiple .tars which share sprite numbers and then asking why different thing are or are not appearing. Most people avoid most of the reading most of the time. Clicking is far more popular.

Having the 'BaseSet' go down to 1 tar is some way off, maybe when that comes it can go back onto the main page as a single link. For the time being though I think that can be ignored. For ease of editing I'd like to keep the Main set broken up a bit for the time being.

[neob]

you want to split the base set from the additional sets or its all from what in the pictury layout ?
(we can return them to the main page like it was and leave the pictury layout in the new page?)


as for the one link BaseSet yes we are not ~quite there i was only attempting to define the page purpose.

[Ben_Robbins_]

The terminology here is all over the place!

The base set (main set of 'Big-tars'), should remain separated from the 'how to install' page I reckon. Far tidier. But the 'pictury layout' which is an expansion on the 'base set' list, a.k.a. additional sets, should be separate again I feel for the reason I said about in my last reply.

[neob]

i dont know about anyone else terminology but here is an the one i use: (unless someone finds me something better)
BaseSet - the final product, the thing you load in game options e.g. Original Graphics baseSet, OpenGFX baseSet and 32bpp OpenGFX baseSet.
Additionals - everything else that not in the BaseSet e.g. NewGRf's, just tars etc...

---

now how about those entrys:
1. Temperate and City roads v3 - Without Lines
2 .Temperate and City roads v3 - With Lines
only V3 i recal seeing some V4/5 no? anyway arent those are duplicate entry's that shown in BOTH the list above ?!

3. Arctic landscape without grass
isnt it inlucded in the 'Landscape wihtout grass by Alltaken' if not it should be grouped together.

4. Arctic landscape with grass,
5. Arctic roads
isnt both of them are part of the base set already?

6. company Manager Faces v2
i recall there is v3


same for more than 90% of the other entry's (beside the TTRS3, EC3 industrys and selected few) they are duplicates entry's most ofthem without an alternative and with links to the forum if at all and sometimes to older version.


i tried few times to make a layout for this but each time i fail to see the point
it was said that they should be linked to the repo ,so if this list for devs than wont the repo be a better resource for it?
and if its for users i doubt that anyone will be fishing for anything but those selected few from above ...

anyway i give up, unless someone else make sense to me you ppl have fun with this section.


EDIT: i just found another of those splited lists its 3 now (including the other 2 i already redirected)

[Ammler]

and 32bpp OpenGFX baseSet.

Why is there "OpenGFX" in the name? For me, it looks more like the graphics replace ttd original sprites.

Another question should be solved sometime, what license are you using for your tars published here and on the wiki (and on jupix repo)?

Greets
Ammler

[maquinista]

3. Arctic landscape without grass
isnt it inlucded in the 'Landscape wihtout grass by Alltaken' if not it should be grouped together.

For the moment It isn't included, but I can include It in the future.

[planetmaker]

Another question should be solved sometime, what license are you using for your tars published here and on the wiki (and on jupix repo)?

Let's say, I don't want OpenGFX associated with stuff which has no license. People otherwise wrongly might assume that it is licensed under GPL and then the original sprite creators blame OpenGFX, to infrindge their copyright...
Even though I can only demand it, if it's using at least one sprite or piece of code from OpenGFX, I'd like to see anything related to (O)TTD(P) and with OpenGFX in its name licensed under GPL v2+

[Ben_Robbins_]

neob: On roads, I am using v4, They are uploaded here. The Wiki doesn't link to them, because the main files link to road sets which use more than just the sprites in those v4's and are not under my name. Issue's previous stated.

Company Managers faces v3 is the same as v2 but with symlinks and is here.

Ammler/planetmaker: The files on the repository aren't released under any licence as a result of being on the repository as far as I'm aware. The licence is stated elsewhere. Most of the main artists have stated what licence their work has been released under. GPL v2 is the choice of most. A new thread might be helpful souly for people stating how they wish to release there work, and this can be linked to from the wiki/repository. It's stated in the information section that is with every file I've uploaded to the repository.

Not that I care too much either way on the use of the term '32bpp OpenGFX' here, but '32bpp OpenGFX' or '32bpp Fullzoom OpenGFX' is not the same as just 'OpenGFX' even if the name appears within it. Likewise visual similarities in work are irrelevant to the name choice. Might as well avoid the foreseeable confusion in similarities in 2 separate project names though.

[Jupix]

Ammler/planetmaker: The files on the repository aren't released under any licence as a result of being on the repository as far as I'm aware.

Indeed, please don't think your stuff needs to be a certain license to be permitted there, or that licensing is done for you if you just upload. There is no default. All files should be licensed by their artists and the license mentioned in the infobox. In the worst case, if you care about the license but skip the licensing part, someone might take your file as being in public domain and do as they please with it.

If I may briefly chime in on the file naming scheme from a repo administration point of view, it doesn't make much difference what the name of the file is, as long as the name describes the content. We've got categories for sorting. In an ideal case we would be naming uploads by sprite numbers.

Also, I don't like the name "32bpp OpenGFX" either and I wish people would forget it. The OpenGFX authors never condoned the use of the name in any other project and while that isn't a legal problem in an open environment, it still bothers me. And anyway, our project isn't in any way related to theirs. It's not like we're making a 32bpp OpenGFX release, we're making a set with completely different models. 32bit graphics development was always the official pet name of our project and I think that suits it rather well...

[neob]

and 32bpp OpenGFX baseSet.

Why is there "OpenGFX" in the name? For me, it looks more like the graphics replace ttd original sprites.

Another question should be solved sometime, what license are you using for your tars published here and on the wiki (and on jupix repo)?

Greets
Ammler

correct if i am wrong but isnt 'OpenGFX' is just a graphics replace for ttd original sprites...
so yes the 32bpp some name is just a a graphics replace for ttd original sprites as well only in 32bpp


anyway as for the "OpenGFX" i used it because i thought its kind convention for you ppl
to call it Open Whatever, like OpenGFX, OpenSFX and probably some kind of OpenMDI (for the music)

so i keep saying 32bpp OpenGFX because this what I see as the final goal, providing one 32bpp BeseSet to replace all of the 8bpp sprites.
and us having other great graphics dosent change it, ppl can have whatever license they want for them (just like for any 8bpp newgrf development)
also generally i am more comfortable using the 32bpp graphics either way

[Jupix]

Our 32bpp is not a special open implementation of a proprietary 32bpp set, it's a whole new concept.

And OpenSFX etc. AFAIK are inspired by OpenGFX to the end of "opening" up the game bundle which is why they have that word in their name. As I said, that is not our goal, we were always open to start with, long before there was OpenGFX.

[Zephyris]

I say call it Open32bpp, or something like that. OpenGFX is the name of the 8bpp replacement project, not the 32bpp one.

[neob]

If I may briefly chime in on the file naming scheme from a repo administration point of view, it doesn't make much difference what the name of the file is, as long as the name describes the content. We've got categories for sorting. In an ideal case we would be naming uploads by sprite numbers.

at the moment where we have only few entry's in each category its works fine.
btw should we associate sprite numbers to sprites in the tracker ?

[GeekToo]

Indeed, OpenGFX is already (at least for me) a well known name, with it's own style. Naming the 32bpp replacements 32BppOpenGFX or something like that would lead to confusion. It would look like it aims at replacing the 8bpp OpenGFX style, which is not true. It will replace the OpenGFX and the Original base set.
Besides, there already is a project that has that name (or at least close enough) on the OpenttdCoop DevZone, that indeed is aiming for the OpenGFX style.

Open32bpp, 32bppGFX, maybe EZ32bppGFX (for extra zoom vs normal zoom), it's all fine with me.

btw should we associate sprite numbers to sprites in the tracker ?

That would be helpful, but also a lot of work. I'd only do that for the sprites that are not yet done.
And for the sprites in the ofgxe_extra / openttdw/d grf, the numbers are yet to be established for the 32bppextra.grf.

BTW Neob, the 3rd list you've found is not a duplicate, it only contains links to tars for default zoom level tars.

[maquinista]

Maybe 32bpp EZL (extra zoom leveles).